Sold a car and now the head gasket has gone

Don_Kidick

Not being funny here, but you have all missed her get out of jail free card.

You were honest and told her the car was leaking water. A HG wouldnt be picked up on an MOT anyway....thats not the point though. You told her the car had a waterleak and needed a new pump.

Now, a loss of coolant and subsequent overheating if continued to be driven WILL cause HG failure.

So, she bought it after being told it had a leak and needed a pump. She chose to drive it home. If on her journey (or at any time later) the coolant all leaked out, then the engine WILL overheat (on some cars this wont give a temp needle indication on dash as the water temp sensor cant sense the temp of water that isnt there). So if she drove it in this condition she WILL warp the head and cause headgasket failure.

IMHO, as a non-legal expert, this means its not your fault at all (you did your duty and told her of the leak), and the failure was most likely caused by her driving it with no water in it.

Regards, Don.

MrSmartprice

I think it is frightening that some people are willing to dispense such appalling and factually incorrect advice on MSE, particularly on threads like this where the barrack-room lawyers are first to show themselves.

Selling a car privately does carry some legal obligations, although not as many as a trade sale. The Sale of Goods Act is not completely irrelevant in private sales. The main requirement is that goods sold privately are as described. This means that if a car is described as a 'Good Runner' while the head gasket is blown there is certainly a case to be answered.

I am a retired TSO and recall several cases where a private seller had sold a car in supposedly good condition, when it was clear there were problems. I represented some at the Small Claims Court and invariably obtained some redress from the sellers, who always thought they had no liability and could describe cars as they liked. A sensible private seller never includes anything about condition. Just stick to the facts!

A private seller also has to sell a car in a roadworthy condition. Subject to very specific exceptions (scrap, etc) it is an offence to sell an unroadworthy car. This is not an issue here as a blown head gasket does not render a car unroadworthy.

The other bad advice is putting 'Sold As Seen' on receipts. Don't bother, a court will take no notice of it. The term in law means that the one sold was the one you saw, not a different one! And it is a criminal offence for a trader to put 'Sold As Seen' on a receipt.

This may be bad news for the OP. But if the purchaser decides to sue on the basis of the car being sold as a 'Good Runner' then they have a good chance of success.

Raksha

This is why you pay more for a car from a dealer than Jo Bloggs on the street. A private seller can't be expected to know if a car is suffering from any small fault which may turn into a big one (after the car has been purchased). I think Don Kiddicks post is very relevant here - she chose to drive the vehicle away, knowing it was losing water......

BTW - taking an 'expert' with you is not always the answer. I was in the 'buyer has just seperated and she NEEDED a car. Her 1 child couldn't get to school, nor her to the supermarket as she lived rural. (No supermarket deliveries in those days) So, the seller said, it's mot'd, it's taxed, it's a good runner.' category some years ago - the 'expert' I took was my OH, who didn't even notice the wheels on the front were different sizes and that the gear box had gone...........

choose your 'expert' wisely

Oneday77

Taken from: - AA

Private

If you buy privately, you won't be protected legally if the car doesn't come up to scratch. It's up to you to ask the right questions and have the car thoroughly inspected before you buy.
Safeguards Essentially it's a case of 'Buyer Beware'. As the onus is on you to make sure the car is sound, it's a good idea to get an independent engineer to give the car a thorough mechanical inspection.
Hidden past Then, there are past owners to consider. You could opt for an AA Car Data Check, which will let you know if there's outstanding finance on the car, or even if it has a shady history.
Your legal rights are limited and unscrupulous dealers often masquerade as private sellers, so beware.
The only legal terms that cover a private sale contract are:

• the seller must have the right to sell the car
• the vehicle should not be misrepresented
• it should match its description:
  • for example, if the ad states that there is a valid MOT, there should be a valid MOT.

Remember, if there are problems, you can only claim against someone you can find, and who has the means to meet your claim. Therefore:

• go to the seller's address and if possible get a home phone number – don't meet someone on a street corner
• check the documents carefully – make sure the seller is the person named on the registration document and other papers.

The AA Car Buyer's Contract can offer you some protection if you're buying privately.

The OP didn't represent. She had no knowledge of any other problems aother than what she disclosed. I am a good runner, I just can't do more than half a Marathon before my knee presents a problem, is that me misrepresenting myself?

MrSmartprice

Oneday77 wrote: »

Taken from: - AA

Private

If you buy privately, you won't be protected legally if the car doesn't come up to scratch. It's up to you to ask the right questions and have the car thoroughly inspected before you buy.
Safeguards Essentially it's a case of 'Buyer Beware'. As the onus is on you to make sure the car is sound, it's a good idea to get an independent engineer to give the car a thorough mechanical inspection.
Hidden past Then, there are past owners to consider. You could opt for an AA Car Data Check, which will let you know if there's outstanding finance on the car, or even if it has a shady history.
Your legal rights are limited and unscrupulous dealers often masquerade as private sellers, so beware.

The only legal terms that cover a private sale contract are:

• the seller must have the right to sell the car
• the vehicle should not be misrepresented
• it should match its description:
  • for example, if the ad states that there is a valid MOT, there should be a valid MOT.

Remember, if there are problems, you can only claim against someone you can find, and who has the means to meet your claim. Therefore:

• go to the seller's address and if possible get a home phone number – don't meet someone on a street corner
• check the documents carefully – make sure the seller is the person named on the registration document and other papers.

The AA Car Buyer's Contract can offer you some protection if you're buying privately.

The OP didn't represent. She had no knowledge of any other problems aother than what she disclosed. I am a good runner, I just can't do more than half a Marathon before my knee presents a problem, is that me misrepresenting myself?

The initial advice from the AA is misleading, presumably to try and sell you their overpriced examination service. Of course there is some redress if you buy privately. They actually list it in the part below. Which is exactly what I said in my earlier post. If the car is misdescribed a civil court will make an award against a private seller.

There is no doubt whatsoever in law that the OP did misrepresent the car if she said it was a 'Good Runner'. If you cannot say something for certain you say nothing. Any sensible seller of a car will realise that.

Your final comment does you no credit and reveals you to be the barrack-room lawyer I referred to. Terms such as that are clear in their intention and District Judges certainly don't treat it with the flippancy you do!

Out of curiosity, I wonder what experience you have of dealing with car matters in the UK Civil Courts!;)

Errata

Surely it was a good runner until the head gasket went ?

Homersimpson

The problem with cars is that they are ok up until the point that they aren't, things can fail with no warning (whilst others start off as minor problems and get worse).

I once changed a front wheel bearing for a friend of mine on a peugot 106 (he was in attendance), I did the bearing and he took the car up the road and said that the brake travel was now excessive. I drove the car and the pedal was nearly on the floor, I had never driven the car before but it wasn't right. I took the front brake apart again and everything was fine, when reassembled the problem was still evident.

I noticed when trying it again that the handbrake came up very high, as a last resort I removed the rear drum on on-side to reveal that the linings had come off the brakeshoes and was moving around inside the drum. A new set of shoes cured this. If I had been a garage, how on earth would I have convinced a customer that the fault was not anything to do with what I had done?

I personally have bought a lot of cars, I think when buying a secondhand car you need to ask yourself why its for sale. If its ex fleet then its obvious, again a young couple with a baby on the way selling a two seater sports car seems reasonable. Most people don't say "thats a really good reliable car, i'd better get rid of it!"

I have bought lemons but as a private sale it would never occur to me to go back to the seller, I guess it helps because I can usually fix it myself.

TESCO_R+R_RAIDER

2_litre wrote: »

£580 for a head gasket change :eek:

that a lot here its only £200 and that's after the head been re skimmed.
a head gasket can go at any time. and there is no indication of how long. when a car been standing some time and starts up condensation forms on the oil cap leaving a mayonnaise layer on It. most people panic and take it to a garage. then find out nothing wrong after a compression check.
next time you sell a car best advice is to put sold as seen on the receipt.
dealerships evan i was burned at one of these was sold a car so bad the brakes and disks needed changing, cut out whilst driving and the dealer went bust the next day. i was not the only one 200 other people lost money for poor quality cars. mine had only gone to the garage down the road to check the brakes out as i did not beive the salesman.

alm721

Ivrytwr3 wrote: »

But perhaps, the buyer has just divorced, partner/husband/dad/dog/cat had just died and she literally had no one to inspect the car. And she NEEDED a car. Her 2 children couldn't get to school, nor her to the supermarket as she lived rural.

So, the seller said, it's mot'd, it's taxed, it's a good runner.

The buyer takes this on trust and spends what little money she has on a lemon.

Yep the buyer got all she deserved. I should have seen that.

But equally maybe the buyer wasn't as innocent as she seems. Maybe she saw a single woman desperate for some money, negociated a further £200 off the cost of the car and failed to take it for a test drive, or have it looked and then on finding that the car is leaking coolant sees it as a good way to make some easy money. Colludes with a garage tells op that HG has gone and that she has had to pay £580 and hopes that making the op feel guilty will make her pay up!
This seems to me to be equally as plausabile. If I was the purchaser of the car and the hg had gone there is no way I would instruct a garage to repair it for £580 without having put my concerns in writing to the seller with a least 2 quotes and offered the seller the oppotunity to get it checked herself? I wonder why she hasn't done this?

op you say it has been recently mot'd. How long before the sale did this mot take place?

alm721

MrSmartprice wrote: »

I am a retired TSO and recall several cases where a private seller had sold a car in supposedly good condition, when it was clear there were problems. .

But how in this case was it clear that there was a problem? The seller told the buyer about the leaking coolant so this was not misdescribed and whos to say that the hg had been gone a long time? Only the 'garage' that the buyer took the car to, whos to say that they were anymore right than the garage who the seller took the car to for mot? As someone pointed out garages are not generally in the business of not telling the cars owner of a potentially lucrative repair?

It may be the case that the op knew the hg had gone and sold it knowing that and therefore lied to the buyer but I don't see how that could be proved especially since they told the buyer about the leaking coolant.

It may be that the buyer is lying and is friendly with a gargage or that a garage has ripped off the buyer when there was nothing wrong. Either way there appears to be no way to prove this either as the car has now been fixed.

Or it may be that the hg blew as the buyer drove it home, if so then surly thats just bad luck if the seller hasn't lied.

Whichever is correct, how could the buyer have any comeback?