Ground Floor Lease hold Roof issue

russ_nettle

Hi I wonder if anyone could advise on a bit of a messy situation!

I am a leaseholder on a Ground Floor Flat, Free hold is managed by (the ever useless and expensive, Pier management).

The Leaseholder for the upstairs flat has reported a problem with the roof leaking and has advised that he has called the freeholder and they have advised that he needs to take care of the roof himself and split the bill between us.

I have called the leaseholder who advised that the upstairs leaseholder called them, they advised they would need to get contractor round to provide a quote.

My issues/questions are as follows:

As I am groundfloor lease holder, am I even responsible/liable for the roof?

I pay ground rent and insurance to the freeholder, if I am responsible for this, shouldnt it be covered as part of this?

The leaseholder for the upstairs flat is doing a loft conversion and has not had this approved/or worked on by the freehold, plus also has outstanding debt with them. I think this is why he does not want them to get a contractor around.

I know if the freeholder arranges a contractor and I do have to pay half, it will end up costing way more, however what is to say the quote received from the upstairs flats "roofer" isn't a scam etc (he is a plasterer with mates in the trade, but is a bit of an unsavory character)

Any help/advice would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance!

blckbrd

Your lease will tell you about the freeholder responsibility for repairs to the structure and your liability to pay for them. It will also show any nonsense covenants the freeholder has regarding responsibility for the works.

If the roof blew off, your upstairs neighbour may feel it before you did but you would soon bear the effects of being roofless. The same in reverse with the foundations. Just because it's not directly attached does not limit liability for costs.

Some freeholders have leases writtenin such a way that they stay out of the business of repairs leaving it to leaseholders to organise. They probably do this to avoid their responsibilities under Landlord and Tenant legislation arguing that costs would be recoverable via lessees anyway.

So before anything else, check your lease and don't let your neighbour organise anything until you do especially as the info he has given you conflicts with the management company's. You may find if he has poked around and caused a problem that he alone is liable to remedy/pay for.

pie81

russ_nettle wrote: »

Hi I wonder if anyone could advise on a bit of a messy situation!

I am a leaseholder on a Ground Floor Flat, Free hold is managed by (the ever useless and expensive, Pier management).

The Leaseholder for the upstairs flat has reported a problem with the roof leaking and has advised that he has called the freeholder and they have advised that he needs to take care of the roof himself and split the bill between us.

I have called the leaseholder who advised that the upstairs leaseholder called them, they advised they would need to get contractor round to provide a quote.

My issues/questions are as follows:

As I am groundfloor lease holder, am I even responsible/liable for the roof?

Check your lease, which will say what costs you are responsible for. Usually in leasehold situations, all flats will share the costs of roof repairs because the roof benefits all flats not just the top flat.

I pay ground rent and insurance to the freeholder, if I am responsible for this, shouldnt it be covered as part of this?

Usually there are three separate charges that leasholders have to pay: (1) Ground rent which just goes into the landlord's pocket and is not used to pay for repairs (2) Insurance contribution which pays for buildings insurance. However buildings insurance will not usually cover a leaking roof (it depends what caused the leak but if it was just wear and tear then insurance will not cover that). (3) Share of the costs of maintaining/repairing the common parts of the property i.e. roof, hallways, entrance etc.

So assuming your situation is the usual, the answer is No this cost would not be covered by ground rent and insurance, it is a separate charge. But you need to check the wording of your lease to be sure.

The leaseholder for the upstairs flat is doing a loft conversion and has not had this approved/or worked on by the freehold, plus also has outstanding debt with them. I think this is why he does not want them to get a contractor around.

One way or another I think you should make sure the landlord gets to know about this. After all it could be the loft conversion work that has caused the leak. If this is the case then the upstairs leaseholder should be responsible for fixing the roof, NOT the freeholder, and you would not then bear any of the costs. Also he may not be doing the loft conversion safely which could affect the structure of the building...

I know if the freeholder arranges a contractor and I do have to pay half, it will end up costing way more, however what is to say the quote received from the upstairs flats "roofer" isn't a scam etc (he is a plasterer with mates in the trade, but is a bit of an unsavory character)

I wouldn't be happy with the upstairs leaseholder getting in his friendly roofer as this will just help him hide the loft conversion from the freeholder. Also as you say the whole thing could be a scam cooked up by the upstairs guy, there might not even be a leak. If I were you I would insist on the freeholder appointing their own contractor. If you then think their quote is far too much then you could find your own builder to give an alternative quote. legally if the work is going to cost over a certain amount per leaseholder (I think it is £250) then you are entitled to comment on the proposed works and suggest your own contractor.

Any help/advice would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance!

hope the above comments help.

Fire_Fox

All matters leasehold here including dealing with 'useless' managing agents:
http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/
I recommend reading as much of this extensive site as possible, so that you understand your rights and responsibilities as a leaseholder under the current legislation.

Your long lease will set out what you are and are not responsible for paying for - usually the roof is a communal expense - and who organises the repairs. IF the upstairs flat has the right to use the loft they may also have the responsibility to maintain the roof or, with the agreement of all parties, they could vary the lease to accept this. Frankly I would ask the managing agents to investigate (in writing by recorded delivery, quoting your long lease) - if you are happy for upstairs to take over the loft space then make sure you get something in return!

blckbrd

"Check your lease, which will say what costs you are responsible for. Usually in leasehold situations, all flats will share the costs of roof repairs because the roof benefits all flats not just the top flat."

Care should be taken with the 'perception of benefit'. It's not what indicates liability.

For exmple many ground floor laseholders find themselves 'reasonably' contributing to the costs of running/maintaining a lift because it's considered part of the structure and fabric of the building.

goldbyron

I am of the understanding that you would be liable for half the costs in this situation. However the issue of the extension makes this more complex - if the works have caused this then I would think this is not your problem. You may be insured through storm damage if recent bad weather caused the problem - like slipped tiles in high wind.

Richard_Webster

You really do have to look at that lease because there are lots of different permutations of responsibilities as between freeholder and leaseholder for repairs, and further permutations as whether that person responsible can recover all or part of the costs of work from others.

Generalisations are not a lot of help for OP who needs specific advice about the wording of his lease and he will probably have to go tot a solicitor to get this.