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Esa medical report
Comments
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There is nothing to stop people recording a medical. They just need to be responsible and ensure that the person doing the medical is given the appropriate protection.
Tape recordings can be doctored to make it seem like something was said when it really wasnt.
There is something to stop people from recording a medical.
A claimaint actually tried to comply with DWP/ATOS rules, sound engineer the whole hog, but as part of the rules, they have to get ATOS to agree to the recording, ATOS refused point blank, stating NONE of their assessors would submit to a assessment taking place if it was recorded.
Even more evidence for a tribunal to take into consideration when deciding to allow covert tape recordings...[greenhighlight]but it matters when the most senior politician in the land is happy to use language and examples that are simply not true.
[/greenhighlight][redtitle]
The impact of this is to stigmatise people on benefits,
and we should be deeply worried about that[/redtitle](house of lords debate, talking about Cameron)0 -
You have not responded to my post. Do you accept that your interpretation of the noted cases is inaccurate?
I am not aware of anyone that is opposed to people recording medicals. Perhaps I missed those posts.
No, I dont agree, you still have not responded to my post when I asked what makes you think a tribunal would not accept the evidence?[greenhighlight]but it matters when the most senior politician in the land is happy to use language and examples that are simply not true.
[/greenhighlight][redtitle]
The impact of this is to stigmatise people on benefits,
and we should be deeply worried about that[/redtitle](house of lords debate, talking about Cameron)0 -
Tape recordings can be doctored to make it seem like something was said when it really wasnt.
Not easily, and a court can weigh up the likelyhood of it, in serious cases, analytics could be used to prove it it is faked or not, for a tribunal, it would come down to the balance of probabilties, and tribunals are fully aware of how bad ATOS medicals really are....
Its *much* more likely, that the evidence from ATOS is inaccurate, than a skint benefit claimaint could fake the recording.[greenhighlight]but it matters when the most senior politician in the land is happy to use language and examples that are simply not true.
[/greenhighlight][redtitle]
The impact of this is to stigmatise people on benefits,
and we should be deeply worried about that[/redtitle](house of lords debate, talking about Cameron)0 -
In what was does a judge in the tribunal, stating, officially, that a covert recording should require different rules than a overt one, and specifically quoting a case where covert recordings were accepted into evidence, not support the case?
What on earth would make you think a tribunal would not accept the evidence?
You clearly do not understand legal process. The comments were made obiter, and therefore no precedent is set. Furthermore, even if it was binding, the point that you have highlighted does not state that covert evidence will always be acceptable, it refers to the various considerations in Dogherty, which again do not wholly support your assertion.
I take it you are not legally trained?
Gone ... or have I?0 -
You dont have to be legally trained to realise that a tribunal has the right to accept it as evidence, and that tribunals operate on the balance of probabilities, its a tribunal, its not subject to the same evidential procedures as a normal court.
The evidence from a covert recording is *highly* relavent, and considering it is impossible to record them without doing it covertly, it would be a clear cut breach of natural justice to not allow it as evidence.
Even stuff that is obiter can be highly influential, and would certainly sway things towards it being accepted, I can see no reason why they would not accept a covert recording. The DWP already have....[greenhighlight]but it matters when the most senior politician in the land is happy to use language and examples that are simply not true.
[/greenhighlight][redtitle]
The impact of this is to stigmatise people on benefits,
and we should be deeply worried about that[/redtitle](house of lords debate, talking about Cameron)0 -
Slightly OT, but I was given the same prognosis recently, so have decided to seek another opinion privately, just in case my consultant was wrong
Hearing there is no cure, only further deterioration is awful, so the fact that not all medics will agree is something positive to hold on to.
The benefit of private medicine is that they have more time to consider your condition, and they are able to consider different treatments that are not subject to NHS funding constraints. I hope you get a more positive outcome. Gone ... or have I?0 -
You dont have to be legally trained to realise that a tribunal has the right to accept it as evidence, and that tribunals operate on the balance of probabilities, its a tribunal, its not subject to the same evidential procedures as a normal court.
The evidence from a covert recording is *highly* relavent, and considering it is impossible to record them without doing it covertly, it would be a clear cut breach of natural justice to not allow it as evidence.
Even stuff that is obiter can be highly influential, and would certainly sway things towards it being accepted, I can see no reason why they would not accept a covert recording. The DWP already have....
You do not understand the case law in this are. Your opinions do not count when it comes to the strict interpretation of the law, and that is all that you have demonstrated in this thread. When you become a welfare law specialist I shall be happy to continue this conversation.
Gone ... or have I?0 -
I have to disagree.Not easily, and a court can weigh up the likelyhood of it, in serious cases, analytics could be used to prove it it is faked or not, for a tribunal, it would come down to the balance of probabilties, and tribunals are fully aware of how bad ATOS medicals really are....
Its *much* more likely, that the evidence from ATOS is inaccurate, than a skint benefit claimaint could fake the recording.
I've been advised that ATOS provide an amazingly good service to both the DWP and claimants. I'm next to certain that I havent been misled.0 -
You do not understand the case law in this are. Your opinions do not count when it comes to the strict interpretation of the law, and that is all that you have demonstrated in this thread. When you become a welfare law specialist I shall be happy to continue this conversation.
You still have not said why a tribunal would not accept covert evidence.
If you are an expert on the matter, you should be able to tell me.
As it is, I have provided plenty that supports the fact it should be allowed, but you have not offered one single thing to say why it would not be.
ps - welfare rights specialists are not the people who decide what tribunals allow btw.. So what good would me being a welfare rights specialist do? Can you show me one single case where covert evidence has been refused by a tribunal?[greenhighlight]but it matters when the most senior politician in the land is happy to use language and examples that are simply not true.
[/greenhighlight][redtitle]
The impact of this is to stigmatise people on benefits,
and we should be deeply worried about that[/redtitle](house of lords debate, talking about Cameron)0 -
NASA
Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan
Join Date: Jan 2009
Post Count: 2,343
Thanked 2,524 Times in 1,311 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidhwdn
THERE ISN'T ANY MORE TREATMENT!I GIVE UP!
If your giving up then close your claim. It'll save tax payers money.
Once again dmg and healys anal licking cronies hijack and give completely wrong info,as for the reply above,i have worked solidly for the last 25 years and did not ask to become ill,i have paid in a lot more than i will get out of the system,what a disgusting reply.
Thanks for all the genuine replies.0
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