I'm a 5 ft usher, not a bouncer

Fivenations

I work as an usher on a casual basis. There was a recent incident that involved another usher trying to stop a fight. Police had to be called in. The management have now said that they expect all ushers to do the same. I made it clear that I would be vigilant and do my best to prevent a fight and I would call for help but that I would not personally intervene once a fight was underway. It didn't go down well. They insist it is part of the job. Now, I can fight as mean as the next person but I dont see anything in my contract that says I have to do this. Jumping through fire to rescue a patron is one thing but trying to stop a catfight, especially if I can get get sued for retaliaiting should I get hit not having told my assailant I used to do karate, is another matter. Has anyone been in this situation?

dmg24

What kind of environment do you work in? How long have you been there for? Do you have a job description?

timmmers

Well the retaliating and getting sued 'cos you did karate is pure !!!!!!!!...I taught martial arts for over 20 years and you have the exact same rights as anyone else, reasonable force to defend yourself. Karate is as much use as a chocolate teapot for restraining people as it's the wrong type of art. You'd get a frosty reception in a court saying that you punched or kcked a customer to get him to leave or behave if he didn't attack you quite fiercly first.

The police look very hard at staff fighting, they prefer to be called to sort matters out, and you certainly won't be insured which alone is reason not to get physical isn't it?

Would your boss pay you or compensate you if you lost some teeth or broke an arm on his premises? You certainly could hold him accountable as i have known several doormen claim quite large payouts for injury at work.

Apart from anything else, nowadays any Tom !!!!!! or Harry can be carrying a knife, so it's not worth your life and risking trouble with the law just for what is probably quite a meagre wage is it?

Laws vary I think..from place to place...but they are tight now on security staff, a licence and a course is required round here as a minimm to even apply for work like that.

Your boss is an !!!. You be careful. Physically and legally it's a minefield.

t

JasX

do you have one of those SIA licenses? if not you'll be breaking the law getting involved in a licensable security activity without one. I believe up to £5000 fine for both you and employer.

surreysaver

If you wade in, you'll end up being arrested yourself. Best to stand back and just ring the plod. Report your boss to the police - they may give her some suitable advice.

Zazen999

Fivenations wrote: »

I work as an usher on a casual basis. There was a recent incident that involved another usher trying to stop a fight. Police had to be called in. The management have now said that they expect all ushers to do the same. I made it clear that I would be vigilant and do my best to prevent a fight and I would call for help but that I would not personally intervene once a fight was underway. It didn't go down well. They insist it is part of the job. Now, I can fight as mean as the next person but I dont see anything in my contract that says I have to do this. Jumping through fire to rescue a patron is one thing but trying to stop a catfight, especially if I can get get sued for retaliaiting should I get hit not having told my assailant I used to do karate, is another matter. Has anyone been in this situation?

a - what's in your contract?
b - what do they mean, try to stop the fight?......
Do they expect you to try and stop the fight by saying 'stop fighting' or try to stop the fight by actually attacking one of the fighters?
Have they got insurance that cover this?
Have they got legal backing that will support you if one of the fighters takes you to court?
Have they given you training in defence techniques?
Have you had training in 'dealing with a fight' techniques?
Have they risk assessed the situation and put measures in place to reasonably practicably prevent any fighting happening?
At what point are you to call the police?
What security measures have to got to enable you to call the police?
What does your H&S committee say about this?

Fivenations

Thanks for all your comments -I feel vindicated. I'll be reading them closely and drafting a letter should this become an issue.

a - what's in your contract?
Nothing about dealing with violent customers! Just simple customer care and safety. Checking auditorium is safe, checking tickets, showing people to their seats, giving information, evacuation incase of fire

b - what do they mean, try to stop the fight?......
Do they expect you to try and stop the fight by saying 'stop fighting' or try to stop the fight by actually attacking one of the fighters?
BOTH! We are expected to intervene and stop fight once it's in progress.

Have they got insurance that cover this?
With all the H&S issues insurance is a minefield. I'll check.

Have they got legal backing that will support you if one of the fighters takes you to court?
Theatre is council run so in theory yes...

Have they given you training in defence techniques? Have you had training in 'dealing with a fight' techniques?
No to both!!

Have they risk assessed the situation and put measures in place to reasonably practicably prevent any fighting happening?
They always bring in security for standup gigs, however even on those occasions it isn't always easy to find one as they are cutting back on expenses.

At what point are you to call the police?
This has never been covered in any training. I would guess as soon as it looks like erupting into a fight that we are unable to stop.


What security measures have to got to enable you to call the police?
None of the ushers have walkie talkies which makes it very difficult for those working in the balcony.

What does your H&S committee say about this?
I'll check with them next week.

Fivenations

I was so angry last night I forgot I have friends in the force that can give me advice. Thanks

surreysaver wrote: »

If you wade in, you'll end up being arrested yourself. Best to stand back and just ring the plod. Report your boss to the police - they may give her some suitable advice.

Fivenations

Thanks Timmmers. All good advice that I can use to back up my point if I get challenged at my next shift.

timmmers wrote: »

Well the retaliating and getting sued 'cos you did karate is pure !!!!!!!!...I taught martial arts for over 20 years and you have the exact same rights as anyone else, reasonable force to defend yourself. Karate is as much use as a chocolate teapot for restraining people as it's the wrong type of art. You'd get a frosty reception in a court saying that you punched or kcked a customer to get him to leave or behave if he didn't attack you quite fiercly first.

Dont worry - I would only defend myself! Best thing about martial art is that they get you fit enough to run away from your assailants!

Zazen999

5 nations - my list was just a start - it is for you to ask those and other questions to the management. I find that once you start asking awkward questions and referring to legalese - bad management back down.

Good luck.

lynzpower

JasX wrote: »

do you have one of those SIA licenses? if not you'll be breaking the law getting involved in a licensable security activity without one. I believe up to £5000 fine for both you and employer.

100% true . Call the SIA for verification.

If you are being expected to do something unreasonable ( ie outside of the law) you may have further rights.

However, certainly- you shoud refuse to do this work as this is definately a licensable security activity. If you dont have a SIA badge- by law- you cant do it.