Debt collector trying to claim back fraudulent debt

shjo558

Hi,

My Mum moved house at the beginning of 2005 and did all the right things - redirecting mail etc. However, one thing she never thought about was her Great Universal account as she had stopped buying from them years ago.

Unfortunately a catalogue was dropped off at her old house one day and the new tenant had a shopping spree amounting to over £300.

Some time later, Mum received a telephone call from Great Universal regarding her overdue account (she kept the same phone number). She explained that she never ordered the items and had in fact changed address. They checked electoral register etc and agreed it was a fraudulent transaction and no more was ever said. No letters etc from the company or further phonecalls.

Moving on to today, she has had a phonecall from a debt collection agency who have bought the alleged debt from Great Universal. Mum explained everthing to them and they have asked her to contact the police, get a crime reference number etc etc.

Firstly, what should we do? Who can we complain to?
Secondly, why is it up to us to prove the debt isn't ours and not up to them to prove it is?

I am confident enough to deal with this however my Mum, who has never owed a penny, is really worried about it all.

I assume this will also be on her credit file too, so we need that to be changed.

DVardysShadow

Let us get this clear. The crime was against GU. It is GU who were defrauded and GU who need to make the crime complaint.

why is it up to us to prove the debt isn't ours and not up to them to prove it is?

That is not the case at all. Debt collector needs to be told that it is between themselves and GU and mother will [presumably] assist GU, but debt collector to butt out.

The_Pedant

It is up to them to prove the debt is with you.
As you have already discussed this with Great Universal and they agreed it was fraudulent, I would send the DCA a recorded delivery letter pointing out :-
- they changed address, prior to the goods being ordered
- the goods were obtained fraudulently by someone else, unknown to your mum, and without her authorisation
- the electoral roll and credit records confirm the change of address
- the matter has already been discussed in 2007 with Great Universal who agreed after investigating the matter that the purchases were clearly fraudulent and that GU have requested no further information to pursue the matter and so it is considered closed.

I would then add that in like with the rest of the finance industry, that as it is Great Universal that have suffered the loss and not your mother, that you are unable to report a crime against yourself (well, it's what the banks & credit card companies tell you ... they they have to report the crime as it's their loss).

You could invite them to then prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that your mum did indeed make the purchases and point out that if they persist in persuing your mother for the debt that is clearly not hers, that you will consider them in breach of OFT guidelines on unfair business practices, and also in breach of the Protection From Harassment Act 1997, and will have no choice but to refer the matter to the relevant authorities.

Then finish that any further communication from them will be made in writing.

That would probably get the ball rolling. /shrug

Mankysteve

My gran had this happen to her but a quick phone call to the company sorted it out.

shjo558

Mankysteve wrote: »

My gran had this happen to her but a quick phone call to the company sorted it out.

I don't think it will be that simple for us unfortunately. We thought it was sorted in 2005 when my Mum moved.

By the way I said 2007 in my original post but it was 2005!

hippyadam

The_Pedant wrote: »

It is up to them to prove the debt is with you.
As you have already discussed this with Great Universal and they agreed it was fraudulent, I would send the DCA a recorded delivery letter pointing out :-
- they changed address, prior to the goods being ordered
- the goods were obtained fraudulently by someone else, unknown to your mum, and without her authorisation
- the electoral roll and credit records confirm the change of address
- the matter has already been discussed in 2007 with Great Universal who agreed after investigating the matter that the purchases were clearly fraudulent and that GU have requested no further information to pursue the matter and so it is considered closed.

I would then add that in like with the rest of the finance industry, that as it is Great Universal that have suffered the loss and not your mother, that you are unable to report a crime against yourself (well, it's what the banks & credit card companies tell you ... they they have to report the crime as it's their loss).

You could invite them to then prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that your mum did indeed make the purchases and point out that if they persist in persuing your mother for the debt that is clearly not hers, that you will consider them in breach of OFT guidelines on unfair business practices, and also in breach of the Protection From Harassment Act 1997, and will have no choice but to refer the matter to the relevant authorities.

Then finish that any further communication from them will be made in writing.

That would probably get the ball rolling. /shrug

Spot on :money:

woody01

The_Pedant wrote: »

It is up to them to prove the debt is with you.
As you have already discussed this with Great Universal and they agreed it was fraudulent, I would send the DCA a recorded delivery letter pointing out :-
- they changed address, prior to the goods being ordered
- the goods were obtained fraudulently by someone else, unknown to your mum, and without her authorisation
- the electoral roll and credit records confirm the change of address
- the matter has already been discussed in 2007 with Great Universal who agreed after investigating the matter that the purchases were clearly fraudulent and that GU have requested no further information to pursue the matter and so it is considered closed.

I would then add that in like with the rest of the finance industry, that as it is Great Universal that have suffered the loss and not your mother, that you are unable to report a crime against yourself (well, it's what the banks & credit card companies tell you ... they they have to report the crime as it's their loss).

You could invite them to then prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that your mum did indeed make the purchases and point out that if they persist in persuing your mother for the debt that is clearly not hers, that you will consider them in breach of OFT guidelines on unfair business practices, and also in breach of the Protection From Harassment Act 1997, and will have no choice but to refer the matter to the relevant authorities.

Then finish that any further communication from them will be made in writing.

That would probably get the ball rolling. /shrug

Regardless of whether she bought the items, the debt IS with her.
It is in her name, and on her account so she will have to have the evidence to prove otherwise.

DVardysShadow

woody01 wrote: »

Regardless of whether she bought the items, the debt IS with her.
It is in her name, and on her account so she will have to have the evidence to prove otherwise.

It is for GU to prove it is with her at least on balance of probabilities. It is not for her to prove it is not, only for her to answer GU's case if they decide to put it.

OlliesDad

DVardysShadow wrote: »

It is for GU to prove it is with her at least on balance of probabilities. It is not for her to prove it is not, only for her to answer GU's case if they decide to put it.

The proof that GU presumably have is that somebody called with the account name, account number, account address and placed an order. As the person had the details to place the order, it will be up to the account holder to prove it is not there debt.

magoogy

this happened to us when my mum died in 06....we let the catalogues and everyone know shed passed away and was told her account was actually in credit by £13 so we got a cheque to mums estate.....a few months down the line and i get a letter rerouted addressed to my mum at her old address (the postman knew me and knew mum so brought me any mail that had got passed the address reroute) - the letter was a statement for £200 for a mobile phone from the catalogue....luckily i had mums death certificate and the letter they had sent me to proove it wasnt her........

the police were brought in by me because i found out the tenant at mums old house was using her name in a number of ways.......

the tenant got arrested and appeared in court for various counts of fraud....but;

she got let off!!!! can you believe it??????? because she was alcohol and drug dependant they said she had done it to fund her habit and thus she wasnt in right mind.......

sometimes you wonder why you bother?????