Let's get real - who is paying for this prolifragacy?

justjohn

ganonman wrote: »

I just reread my post(s), makes me sound really off.

I'm not trying to some across as that.

Basically, I'm not in direct opposition to the charges issue, as it is not all black and white.

What I do completely disagree with though, is people calling people that are not good with their finances 'thieves'. That is just offensive.

'thieves' is a bit strong....but some people trying too claim fee's back could at least be called dishonest/immoral??

ganonman

justjohn wrote: »

If you are aware a DD will mak your bank overdrawn then it is the exact same. And you should be aware.

A bank has a system that can refuse a direct debit instantly too.

And 20 cheque books is definately fraud compared to knowingly letting a DD go through without having the funds.

This is not to argue that it is right or wrong, this is to say that equating someone that does this to a thief is not on. An idiot maybe, a fool probably (and you will be surprised how many people will openly admit this), but not a theif.


edit: Just don't assume most people do this on purpose, some people are just that bad with money. I was the same, when I was younger I was a complete tool with money. But, lesson learnt, I'm now pretty good with it (in theory, time will tell).

justjohn

ganonman wrote: »

edit: Just don't assume most people do this on purpose, some people are just that bad with money. I was the same, when I was younger I was a complete tool with money. But, lesson learnt, I'm now pretty good with it (in theory, time will tell).

They may not do it on purpose but they have the power not too do it. By managing money. Sometimes due to bad management/negligence it happens. Once is an accident. After that what is it?

And if done deliberatly because they want to go out too the pub what is it ?

I do not agree with the charges spirraling. But the charge is fair in principle.

ganonman

Hmmm... I prefer to leave it to the courts to make the fairness choice, as I would be incapable of not being bias. I know that there was the recent decision, but we all know that's not going to be the end of it, the end won't happen for years.

And yes, I agree that going overdrawn on purpose to go to the pub is immoral, so I'm probably being a hypocrite by judging people on my own standards when asking you not to. I wouldn't do that so I assume everyone else is the same.

My opinion is that the charges are necessary, there are people who genuinely need help, and others that are morons, but it's impossible to differentiate (most of the time) when looking at just a balance sheet. So reducing the charges is what I think should happen, or make the charges go elsewhere rather than profit. People would find it really awkward to argue if bank charges went to charity. :rotfl: Actually that isn't such a bad idea, maybe we should keep charges, but 50% of them should be given to debt charities, and let them separate the needy from the idiots. :T

Anyways, I'm tired so pleasure speaking with you.

timmmers

justjohn wrote: »

Yes I am sure that was heartbreaking...however it is still mismanagement of money...your mate should have been on top of what payments had and had not gone out of his account. If there was any doubt he should have not have withdrawn the entire balance.

The bank issues statements, has mini statements available at ATM machines, has online banking and phone banking or you could always do what my mum does, and write down your balance in a book and EVERYTHING that is going out, and then ticks it off once it has ACTUALLY gone out. Therefore knowing EXACTLY how much money she needs to leave in the account.

I would have thought that living on such a tight budget and knowing (as everyone does) about bank charges you would be EXTRA careful to not stray into the red.

How the hell can you check if a debit card payment has gone out or not from the same day if the damn machine won't print a statement or short statement because the paper simply isn't in there? That is common and happens to me all the time. I don't own the ATM and can't MANAGE that..so can't check what has and what is yet to be taken out.

On the other hand...if my buddy had been allowed to go and cash a giro he'd know exactly where he stood, in cash. He doesn't have enough money to live on anyway on JSA...so leaving a "float" in his AC is not an option so he is forced to sail close to the wind.

I'm sure that you think that taking half of the money a guy has to live on for a week (and you know that as you see it going into the account if you're his bank) ...for a quid O/D at least partly caused by you not allowing real-time checks on balances is fine though.

Loan sharks don't charge that type of fee. 35 quid for a 1 pound loan over less than 2 weeks ? :rotfl:

t

justjohn

timmmers wrote: »

How the hell can you check if a debit card payment has gone out or not from the same day if the damn machine won't print a statement or short statement because the paper simply isn't in there? That is common and happens to me all the time. I don't own the ATM and can't MANAGE that..so can't check what has and what is yet to be taken out.

On the other hand...if my buddy had been allowed to go and cash a giro he'd know exactly where he stood, in cash. He doesn't have enough money to live on anyway on JSA...so leaving a "float" in his AC is not an option so he is forced to sail close to the wind.

I'm sure that you think that taking half of the money a guy has to live on for a week (and you know that as you see it going into the account if you're his bank) ...for a quid O/D at least partly caused by you not allowing real-time checks on balances is fine though.

Loan sharks don't charge that type of fee. 35 quid for a 1 pound loan over less than 2 weeks ? :rotfl:

t

Clealy we will have to agree to disagree on this...so I will make this my last comment.

I would have thought if he was on that tight a budget he would know to the penny what has and has not gone out. Surely he should have looked at the £30 balance in his account and thought...."I didn't expect to have that much ...maybe something has not gone out yet?"

That aside if this was a genuine error, and the ATM machine had run out of paper, and it was his first 'offence', and he explained his circumstances to the bank, then the chances are the bank would have refunded the charge.

You state that the problem is that your mate was forced to have a bank account - but he isn't forced to keep a 'float' in there. If he can manage cash better than cards and cheques, then why didn't he simply wait till his giro went in and withdraw it all in cash. Don't use his card or cheque book and that way if he has cash in his pocket he can spend it and if he doesn't then he can't;)

walesrob

Pammy wrote: »

The banks allowed me to go over, they actually want me to go over.

Incredible!:rolleyes:

So the bank are telling you to go over your limit? They call you up or email you to tell you so?

How about people take some responsibilty and live within their means. Oh no, you can't say that.:rolleyes: Truth hurts.;)

I have a £100 overdraft and I know if I go over that £100 I will be charged, so I do my utmost not to.

Why is it always someone else's fault? If its a £100 overdraft limit, it thats; just a limit, not a target.

Eric_Pisch

justjohn wrote: »

yup i agree...

Well managed accounts should never be OVERDRAWN

Talking out your !!! there sunshine

I had a support contract that was paid 3 months in advance (like many support contracts) they decided to stuff the contract and pay 30 days in arrears and take 60 days to process so effectively i went 6 months without seeing any money, so on that gloriously high pillar that look down on us all smugly grinning are you suggesting we all keep 6 months money in our accounts for emergencies? I had 3 choices, legal action (would have cost more than the contract) leave (so no money until found new work) or suck it up ...

I have also had cheques bounce, cheques been cancelled, a cheque stopped because the bank did a random security check with the issuer who had posted the cheque and gone on holiday for 2 weeks, cheques paid late.

What about people who get sick, or loose there job or has just happened to a family member they get called in on pay day to be told the firm went bust the night before and there not getting paid for the month and there's no money or assets left (as they have been flipped to the new company)?

unexpected things happen and we aint all Alan Sugar with a couple of years salary sloshing about spare in case something happens, this does not give the banks the right to start acting like loan sharks, charge by all means but fair charges :mad: