planning permission and phased extension

silvercar

The house we hope to buy had a large extension in 2004. Planning permission obtained. They then obtained (written and signed) permission from the planning department to do the extension in phases. This was subject to the plans being kept to.

They are currently obtaining sign off by the building regs dept for the work done. They received many inspections and sign offs while the work was in progress so this shouldn't be a problem.

Are we obliged to complete the next phase of the extension?

The shape of the building is as agreed in the plans (they did the side extension as far as the depth of the house whereas the full permission allowed the extension part to also extend into the back garden. Internally they have put en-suites in different places and not moved the kitchen into the extension part but kept it more or less where it was. Does this matter providing they have building regs sign off? All windows and doors are where they should be, its just internally not the same.

bobalicious

silvercar wrote:

The house we hope to buy had a large extension in 2004. Planning permission obtained. They then obtained (written and signed) permission from the planning department to do the extension in phases. This was subject to the plans being kept to.

Are we obliged to complete the next phase of the extension?

Yes. Technically, you are supposed to complete a development that required planning permission once you have commenced works.

However, the only method of enforcing that is through the issue of what is known as a "completion notice" which does what you'd expect - it requires you to complete the works. However, it's very very rarely used. As in about a couple of times per year within England! I've looked at one specific case, and the LPA have to be reasonable, from memory, allow a year to complete the works, plus you have the right of appeal to the Secretary of State for the Environment.

It's so rarely used though, and only if the LPA get complaints that prompt them down that line. Plus, a lot of LPAs are staffed by people who've never heard of completion notices.

If you want more detail the original version of the Act is at

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1990/Ukpga_19900008_en_5.htm#mdiv94

But be careful (as with any on-line legislation) - the primary Act ONLY is shown - it may have been amended by other primary or secondary legislation.

silvercar wrote:

The shape of the building is as agreed in the plans (they did the side extension as far as the depth of the house whereas the full permission allowed the extension part to also extend into the back garden. Internally they have put en-suites in different places and not moved the kitchen into the extension part but kept it more or less where it was. Does this matter providing they have building regs sign off? All windows and doors are where they should be, its just internally not the same.

Again, technically, if PP was obtained for a particular plan - that is the approved plan, and it should be constructed as shown on the plans. Always remember that planning is completely unconnected to Building Control. Technically, you'd apply for "alterations during the course of construction" but if they are only minor alterations, then you may be able to just simply agree in writing that it is a non-material change, to avoid the cost/hassle of a formal application.

Hope that helps!

silvercar

Now I'm worried.

Even with building regs approval, the result does not look like the plans at all internally.
I guess that I should get my solicitor to get them to get planning approval for the changes they made to the plans? More delays!

Is it worth bothering, as the fact that the plans haven't been followed can't be seen from outside the house?

clutton_2

if you dont get this clarified now, you may have trouble when you come to sell it

silvercar

Other half spoke to the planning department (ignoring my instruction not to give the property address).

The planning officer searched out the actual letter he had written. As he gave permission for the work to be done in phases, with no end date, there is no time restriction on when we would have to complete the extension to the size drawn in the plans. Effectively then there is no requirement to complete the work. It also means that the permission won't expire because the extension, according to those plans, has already been started.

Being he knows the address we are talking about, OH decided that it wouldn't be prudent to mention that internally the plans haven't been followed!

We aren't really worried by that as its only obvious from the inside that things are not in the exact place in the plans. We just wanted reassurance that we wouldn't get a notice served on us to complete the work.

Debt_Free_Chick

Internal layout does not usually matter - so a room originally intended to be a kitchen could actually be used as a bathroom. Think about it ... if the internal layout had to be identical, everyone would need planning permission for all internal changes. You could buy the house and change the internal layout at any date in the future, without getting PP.

What is important is that things like drains are where they should be. But again, minor changes are OK and they would have been signed off by the building inspector anyway.

Call the planning officer again and get them to confirm that PP does not apply to internal changes, even if they relate to a recent PP application.

As for completing the extension, I also think it's possible for you to decide not to complete it at all and simply apply for PP for the extension as it is now. However, there seems little point in that as there is no end date to completion. You could simply leave things as they are and, if you sell in the future, the new owners would have the option of completing the extension. Odd situation, though, as you usually 3 years to start work for which you have PP. Once started (i.e. the footings are in) then you can take as long as you like to complete. Are the footings in for the remaining part of the extension?

silvercar

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

As for completing the extension, I also think it's possible for you to decide not to complete it at all and simply apply for PP for the extension as it is now. However, there seems little point in that as there is no end date to completion. You could simply leave things as they are and, if you sell in the future, the new owners would have the option of completing the extension. Odd situation, though, as you usually 3 years to start work for which you have PP. Once started (i.e. the footings are in) then you can take as long as you like to complete. Are the footings in for the remaining part of the extension?

We have no intention of completing the extension - its fine how it is.

As you say we might as well leave the PP as is.

No footings are in for the remaining part AFAIK, but as this would be part of the extension completed (all on the one PP) the extension has effectively started and the planning officer gave permission for it to be completed in phases whenever.

bobalicious

silvercar wrote:

We have no intention of completing the extension - its fine how it is.

As you say we might as well leave the PP as is.

No footings are in for the remaining part AFAIK, but as this would be part of the extension completed (all on the one PP) the extension has effectively started and the planning officer gave permission for it to be completed in phases whenever.

I wouldn't believe that to be correct. I could only advise properly if I had sight of a copy of the decision notice granting planning permission (feel free to PM if you want input), but I find it near impossible to believe that the decision notice itself (which is the statutory document) details phasing, unless it makes explicit reference to a phasing programme....

... and if it makes explicit reference to a phasing programme, then it's a condition of the permission, and you'd need to refer back to that on the case file to get your answer.

To put it more simply, on the information posted, there is still nothing to prevent a completion notice being issued at some point in the future. I'm not highlighting the percentage of risk, but highlighting that it -could- still happen.

silvercar

The original plans had no mention of phases.

Then the owner wrote to the planning officer asking for permission to do the extension in phases and said that the family room and part of the master bedroom above would be built at a later date.

To which the planning officer replied..."write to confirm that there is no objection to your building the extension in phases as set out in your letter as long as it is built in accordance with approved plans and conditions."

Now, having spoken to the same planning officer, he interprets his letter as there was no time restriction put in his original reply, he cannot now stipulate that we have to build it by a certain time.

Whether that means the PP stays in place forever or we would have to re-apply for PP doesn't matter as we don't intend to extend further.

The point we wanted clear was whether we could be forced to do the extension. His answer was no as he has given permission for it to be phased with no requirement on a completion date.

In any case, if we were forced to, could we put in a planning application not to build an extension. As the bit not done is a protusion at the back of the house I can't see what reason anyone would have for insisting it be complete.

seven-day-weekend

I used to work in Town Planning in a previous life.

You have five years to BEGIN the extension, after which your permission lapses. You don't need to begin it if you don't want to, but after the five years you would need to re-apply for planning permission if you then wanted to begin (and it may or may not be granted). If you do begin it within five years, you can take as long as you like to finish it, and never need to finish it if you don't want to. If you DO chose to build, it must be as the approved plan, unless you have WRITTEN confirmation to do it differently.

silvercar

So if you have written permission to do it in phases, can you choose not to do the second phase? The planning officer said yes, as he has given written permission for it to be done in parts without giving a time limit on those parts.

I'm really not going to worry, I can't see anyone insisting that an extension with PP is enlarged when the only bit not done is a protusion out of the line of the house into the back garden. Why would anyone want to insist on this, its not in view of anyone?