Small Business Bank Accounts Discussion Area

Paulgonnabedebtfree

martin1018 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm in the process of opening a business bank account.

I have narrowed my choices down to the Co-operative and A&L, as both have Post Office paying in systems, and neither are 'Big Four' banks which I have an aversion to.
My first choice was for the Co-op, for two reasons;
1 - My personal banking is with A&L and I'm concerned that they may link accounts if there were problems in the future.
2- If the FSB rate them they must be half-decent (mustn't they??).

Anyway, when I tried to open an account on Friday they told me that they were accepting no applications for business accounts except from FSB members. They said this was due to having too many applications to cope with so had stopped accepting them! Really?

This is an issue for me as this means the free banking has a cost of £150 FSB membership!

Anyone know what is, or is likely to be, going on?

Has my list been narrowed down to one?

All (relevant) thoughts welcome. Thanks.

Well A & L is Santander in disguise as I'm sure you're aware. They, alomg with several other banks, are drifting under the Santander umbrella.

As far as the FSB and the Co-op Bank are concerned, I wouldn't allow that annual payment to put you off and I will explain why. Firstly, if you are a sole trader, it isn't £150 a year. It's £100. The first year only is higher (possibly £150) as it includes a setup fee. Maybe there is a commission for the person who signs you up to (though I may be wrong about this).
However, you get rather more than free banking for your FSB fee. You get a legal helpline too. Additionally (and this bit can end up being very important IMO), they supply free accountancy help if you are ever investigated by HMRC. Now you may already be aware of this but the accountancy fees can be quite horrific if you are ever investigated. Furthermore, unlike ordinary accountancy fees, they are not tax deductible. This still applies even if you are totally exonerated of any wrongdoing. The FSB bat for your side in such a situation and your membership fee covers this. It is possible to get insurance to cover such fees but I understand that the premium for this can be higher than an FSB membership.
In my view, FSB membership is worthwhile just for this accountancy help if you ever get selected for investigation. On top of that you get free banking with the Co-op and a legal helpline. I've never used my FSB membership to anywhere near its full capoacity but it's nice to know that it's there if I need it for the price of less than a pint of beer a week. And to cap it all, the FSB membership fee is tax deductible so you can knock 28% (including profit based NI) off that if you pay tax at the rate most people do.
All that for about £72 a year. IMO it's a no brainer .

HappySad

martin1018 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm in the process of opening a business bank account.

I have narrowed my choices down to the Co-operative and A&L, as both have Post Office paying in systems, and neither are 'Big Four' banks which I have an aversion to.
My first choice was for the Co-op, for two reasons;
1 - My personal banking is with A&L and I'm concerned that they may link accounts if there were problems in the future.
2- If the FSB rate them they must be half-decent (mustn't they??).

Anyway, when I tried to open an account on Friday they told me that they were accepting no applications for business accounts except from FSB members. They said this was due to having too many applications to cope with so had stopped accepting them! Really?

This is an issue for me as this means the free banking has a cost of £150 FSB membership!

Anyone know what is, or is likely to be, going on?

Has my list been narrowed down to one?

All (relevant) thoughts welcome. Thanks.

I googled business bank account and forums and found comments on co-op bank. Person complained about long post office queues and also on occasions cheques that were paid in being lost. It was stated that if your local post office is not efficient this can happen many time. Two people complained on this forum about cheques being lost on a few occasions.

I have read (I think earlier in this thread) that their online banking facility it not very good.


I think the Business Federation sounds good. I am all for covering my back as much as possible and for £72 a year; which is basically insurance I can get as much business support as I want. Great!!!

Thanks for this.

Thanks Cottager for your comments on Natwest about banks being real banks. It looks like you are fairly happy with Natwest. Any advice with dealing with them? I would like to open an account with them soon.

HappySad

What are the benefits of the business Federation? I have looked on the website and it is not very clear what you are getting.

Paulgonnabedebtfree

HappySad wrote: »

What are the benefits of the business Federation? I have looked on the website and it is not very clear what you are getting.

I thought I had covered that. Basically your membership fee covers accountancy fees if you are ever investigated, free business banking with the Co-op, and a legal helpline. IMO the accountancy bit alone makes it worthwhile.

HappySad

Paulgonnabedebtfree wrote: »

I thought I had covered that. Basically your membership fee covers accountancy fees if you are ever investigated, free business banking with the Co-op, and a legal helpline. IMO the accountancy bit alone makes it worthwhile.

\
Thanks for this.... Does it offer free day to day accounting advice too?

Paulgonnabedebtfree

HappySad wrote: »

\
Thanks for this.... Does it offer free day to day accounting advice too?

I don't think so. I believe it's just help in an investigation situation.
When I firsty wenbt self-employed (in 1991), the advice that other people kept giving was "get an accountant". I didn't at first. Then after a while, bits of paper started coming through the post that I didn't fully understand. So I got an accountant. Still have the same guy 19 years on. My accounmts are pretty straightforward. Sole trader who supplies a service rather than goods. No VAT as below turnover threshhold. I print everything out for him from my spreadsheet and supply him with my bank statement and receipts etc. He does his bit, comes up with the numbers, does my tax return (or the current electronic equivalent), and last year charged me less than £250 (tax deductible).

I suggest you look ariound for an accountant if you haven't yet done so. It needn't be horribly expensive.

cottager

HappySad wrote: »

Thanks Cottager for your comments on Natwest about banks being real banks. It looks like you are fairly happy with Natwest. Any advice with dealing with them? I would like to open an account with them soon.

Sorry, not been around till now. I didn't mean to single out Natwest as the only 'real bank'! I'm sure the same is true of all the traditional ones in terms of what I call a 'full service', but Natwest is the only one we have experience of for the business.

Our main personal accounts are also there, but we've had (in the past and currently) other accounts with a number of others so haven't been isolated from being able to compare service. As one example, I've also found Halifax good: other people hate them, and I'm sure Natwest too, but you can only call it as you see it.

But Natwest for the business: yes, pretty happy on the whole. There'll always be room for niggles with banks, but it's swings and roundabouts and I think you'd have to go an awful long way to find one with no faults at all! There was one incident arising from the online banking section which affected us very seriously last year (nothing to do with the branch), but our business manager got on to it and we had compensation. It was bad, and we did seriously consider moving, but putting it right was handled well and we balanced it up against 30+ yrs of trouble-free service, and came to the conclusion one almighty c***up in that time wasn't bad going, so stayed and haven't had cause to regret it - not yet anyway!

Many different business managers in that time, but got on well with all of them (bar one notable exception), and it's handy having someone you can ring for help/advice if need be. Natwest have a policy - or at least they did - of leaving the same managers in place for at least 3 (?) years, which means you get some continuity; but in practice we rarely need to bother him as either the branch staff or his assistant are pretty good at sorting out any day-to-day queries. We're regularly in and out of a business overdraft so have to see him at least once a year for that if for no other reason, and it's never been a hassle or something to dread. They know us, we know them, and in our experience as long as we play fair with the bank they've always done the same.

The charges are a bind, not cheap at all, and naturally we'd prefer not to have them, specially when times get tough as they have been over the last year or so. But balancing that against the 'full service' mentioned previously, I doubt we'd be tempted elsewhere unless something else really horrendous happened; and even then I'm pretty sure we'd be off to one of the other main banks. Our account's too busy and there's too much going on with it to forego the full service we're used to and need which, in my personal view, only they can offer currently... but everyone will have a different opinion, and of course circumstances also vary.

Being existing customers I believe we can't take advantage of the free banking offer for 2 yrs which you mentioned yesterday from Natwest - but I'll be sure to bring it up and have a dig when we see our manager again come June! He takes it all in good part

Best of good fortune, whoever you choose to go with.

JohnBo_2

re Santander and BACS payments, if a payment shows up on your statement and you don't know where it came from, send an email to rmt@santander.co.uk and ask them to tell you. You could keep a "template" and just change the amount and date each time, so this would only be a slight nuisance and take very little time. I have done this. If you are otherwise reasonably satisfied with Santander (and value the fact that they are free) it might be best to stay with Santander rather than switch to another bank with other disadvantages (e.g. Coop's apparently poor online service and the charges made by most banks for business accounts).

Paulgonnabedebtfree

JohnBo wrote: »

re Santander and BACS payments, if a payment shows up on your statement and you don't know where it came from, send an email to [EMAIL="rmt@santander.co.uk"]rmt@santander.co.uk[/EMAIL] and ask them to tell you. You could keep a "template" and just change the amount and date each time, so this would only be a slight nuisance and take very little time. I have done this. If you are otherwise reasonably satisfied with Santander (and value the fact that they are free) it might be best to stay with Santander rather than switch to another bank with other disadvantages (e.g. Coop's apparently poor online service and the charges made by most banks for business accounts).

Thanks for the input. I once tried emailing Santander about another matter entirely. I got no reply - not even an acknowledgement that i had sent them an email. So forgive my cynicism when I say that I have little faith in them. Also, when I have discussed the issue of BACS references on the phone with them, unless I'm lucky and get a person who knows what I'm talking about, it can get very longwinded.
There have been other issues too. Most of it works most of the time but when it's broken, it can take a very long time to get anyone to even admit that it's broken.
Dealing with them can be a very frustrating experience.

peakoilisnow

I am a sole trader, business banking with Abbey which is now Santander.

I have been reasonably happy with them. I get paid by cheque for my service-orientated work, and then I used to have the following options to bank: post in prepaid envelope, bank them over the counter, drop them in a box that all Abbey/Santander branches have (quick and avoids queues, in a/c same day), bank them at the counter which means that the cheque is in the clearing process that day.

Cashflow in these hard times is very important.

Now Santander will only **allow businesses to use the cashpoint machine to deposit cheques**, which is slower, and adds one more day to clearing time, so now it sometimes takes 6 days for the cheque to clear. This has meant on several occasions a direct debit has come up short and I have been charged £35.00 by Santander and £20 penalty by the recipient of the DD.:mad:

I used to post cheques in the prepaid envelopes but since the postal strikes and reduced cashflow I have found it good time-management to go shopping and drop in cheques at a nearby Santander branch while passing.

I am very annoyed that businesses are discriminated against by them. I have complained verbally to the counter-person, but looking at what the Financial Ombusman does on this site, I think there's a case for a complaint. I haven't yet submitted a written complaint because this obviously is a head office policy decision.

Do any other Santander Biz Banking users agree and will also complain with me?

thanks