Can a gas and electrcity supplier URGENT

DVardysShadow

johnjames1 wrote: »

Listen to this ..... this is actually an offence under the network act section one. And is a criminal offence

I am not so sure it is. It is heavy persuasion, but I find it hard to say it is criminal. Perhaps you could give a better reference to the Network Act.

As for the recording, post the link on the Debt free Wannabe forum - they will be much more clued up about what is legal - although I think many of them receive comparable harassment on a regular basis

littletommytucker

My understanding of the company which you speak of, was that you receive one bill for all your utilities, and they can offset credits you make against any debits. I wouldn't of thought that what they are doing is wrong.

Premier_2

johnjames1 wrote: »

Listen to this http://www.pre-maturebaby.com/TRACK4.wav this is actually an offence under the network act section one. And is a criminal offence

What act exactly?

What in particular makes you suggest any crime has occured?

[Edit 2: It appears I'm not the only one who doesn't agree with your suggestion.
http://www.pre-maturebaby.com/TRACK6.wav.

Btw, I suggest you change your account password pronto Hosting it on a publically available website isn't very wise, :eek: especially for someone who appears to be so concerned about data protection and your rights thereunder.]

The only thing that I can hear is that Mr Stanton hasn't paid (or rather has reclaimed via the terms of the DD guarantee) the £6000 worth of services that he has consumed. :eek:


Edit: Just found out which company you are talking about.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=387161

johnjames1

(1) Invoicing a business and treating the contract as a business contract (no domestic consumer rights.
(2) Invalid VAT invoices to Business Customer as per HMRC
(3) Direct Debits re-called offered payment of gas and electricty.
(4) Changed verbally and stated that it was a domestic contract when the s**t hit the fan with the energy ombudsman consumer focus etc.
(5) Have letter stating it is a business account hence no statutory rights.
(6) They then state again a domestic account.
(7) DPA subject request for legally binding contracts <no infor provided.>
(8) Consumer credit Act request 1974 for Data. <No data provided.>
(9) Went for warrant without issuing stautory letters and they cannot go for a warrant without doing these (28 day period.)
(10) Took gas and electric through both mags and County Court meaning that if we filed a defence the energy ombudsman could not continue its roll.
(11) Told them company had folded (not banrupt or anything.)
(12) Then invoiced named person
(13) Sent then a letter welcome to your new home with new account number nothing to do with old account.
(14) Credited old account with £630.00
(15) Billed new account for amount debited on old account but not correct and back dated new account to April 2009 (huh)
(16) New account with debt collectors (internal) makes it look like not paid until since April.
(17) Case got chucked out of County Court when all this happened (their case againt us.)
(18) All gas and electric bills paid by CHAPS as well... was up to date.

As to caring might place all what they have done in any case. Hopefully will have energy ombudsman outcome next month............ as to customer services when things go wrong and overbillin by hundreds of pounds due to a flood when their system is down cr*p.

As to an offence:

Sending grossly offensive, indecent, obscene or menacing messages (s.127(1))
Examples of nature of activity Starting point Range

Single offensive, indecent, obscene or menacing call of
short duration, having no significant impact on receiver
Band B fine Band A fine to band C fine
Single call where extreme language used, having only
moderate impact on receiver
Medium level
community order
Low level community order to high level
community order
Single call where extreme language used and
substantial distress or fear caused to receiver; OR
One of a series of similar calls as described in box above
6 weeks custody High level community order to 12 weeks

custody

Premier_2

johnjames1 wrote: »

(1) Invoicing a business and treating the contract as a business contract (no domestic consumer rights.

But I thought you were a business, DMS or something you called yourself. However you were personally liable (they claimed, you didn't deny), presumably because it's not a limited company.

johnjames1 wrote: »

(6) They then state again a domestic account.

I can't be bothered to listen to it again, but I think they said it was being billed on a residential tariff, not quite the same thing.

johnjames1 wrote: »

(13) Sent then a letter welcome to your new home with new account number nothing to do with old account.

OMG, is that really a crime. :rolleyes:
I don't think you need to involve the police for that one

As to an offence:

Sending grossly offensive, indecent, obscene or menacing messages (s.127(1))
Examples of nature of activity Starting point Range
Single offensive, indecent, obscene or menacing call of
short duration, having no significant impact on receiver
Band B fine Band A fine to band C fine
Single call where extreme language used, having only
moderate impact on receiver
Medium level
community order
Low level community order to high level
community order
Single call where extreme language used and
substantial distress or fear caused to receiver; OR
One of a series of similar calls as described in box above
6 weeks custody High level community order to 12 weeks

custody

So why do you think the above call falls into any of those examples?

No offensive, indecent, obscene or extreme remarks I heard.
I suppose you are trying to make a case that them explaining to you what they were proposing to do, which they believe they are legally entitled to do, was menacing? Perhaps you'd have preferred it if they just went ahead and didn't inform you of their intentions? :rolleyes:

Premier_2

Much as I don't particularly admire the company in question, not least for the misleading way I have seen some of their distributors try to spam their services on MSE, I do think you are on a sticky wicket on this one.

I think you really should be seeking independent legal advice not relying on the energy ombudsman. Do you really think the ombudsman is going to support you having possibly fraudulently used the DD Guarantee to reclaim the cost of years of services you have been provided with?

DVardysShadow

Premier wrote: »

Do you really think the ombudsman is going to support you having possibly fraudulently used the DD Guarantee to reclaim the cost of years of services you have been provided with?

Leave out the fraudulent bit, this is the aspect I have a problem with. On some of it, I find it hard to understand exactly what has happened. I think OP needs to back off a bit and make sure that everything undisputed is paid. Otherwise, it is going to be a lonely furrow to plough.

johnjames1

This is the point under the old account everything WAS paid up to date. Last payment made by chaps. So account concerning Gas and Electric was clear so we could change. They then sent a letter with a NEW account dated 20th of October credited the account THEY CLOSED, then back billed the NEW account until April 2009. Therefore, we have gone from having a clear account to one that now looks like we have not paid since APRIL.
DD were recalled and if they were legit then they could have got them back. However, as a business they were not VALID VAT INVOICES and should not have been a business account. They said it WAS A BUSINESS ACCOUNT.
When you have a business account or contract, you have NO DOMESTIC CONSUMER rights. Business goes bust ALL SERVICES CUT OFF. Plus other bits.
It is not a business it is a mid terraced house with two kids.
As to the Energy Ombudsman they have stated “it is obvious that you have done a lot to come to resolution with this company” as they know more of the situation. The Energy Ombudsman knows there is a lot more to this.
The bank and operators of the DD Guarantee scheme stated that if they were legitimate then they would have been credited back to them. We even found a letter that stated it is a business account.
They cannot say you have a business account or contract and then turn around and state that you have a domestic account or contract as there is serious significant differences. They have never sent out any letters about the matters just the phone CALLS yes there is more than one and the Police have taken these seriously. No letters about debt no letters about what they were going to do no statutory letters.
The POINT is they MADE the new account no one asked for it. There was no closing down of the old account letter etc. There was no changing of names to avoid debt as we were paid up and also various letters were sent about settling the GAS and ELECTRIC that the Energy Ombudsman are aware of. And they just ignored everything.
Use readnotify for emails so know they had them and letters by registered post etc.
If I was to threaten one of my customers like that they would have the Police around my house straight away if they knew about it. As they had not sent out the statutory letters they had no right even to state “we will enter you house by force and fit pre-payment meters and you will beholden to us for gas and electricity for a very long time.” They were even made aware that the money was placed into a holding account.

Premier_2

johnjames1 wrote: »

... However, as a business they were not VALID VAT INVOICES and should not have been a business account. They said it WAS A BUSINESS ACCOUNT.
When you have a business account or contract, you have NO DOMESTIC CONSUMER rights. Business goes bust ALL SERVICES CUT OFF. Plus other bits.
It is not a business it is a mid terraced house with two kids...

You still don't get it do you?

It was a business you were running. The accounts were in the name of that business, DMS (or something similar).
It was billed on a residential tariff, but it was opened as a business account because you were a business, hence you don't have the statutory rights available to consumers (only those applicable to businesses)
Your business cannot go bust unless you did as I don't believe you had the benefit of limited liability on the company. Even if I'm wrong, and you did benefit from limited liability, you otherwise gave a personal guarantee against the credit extended to you, hence you are personally liable.

Please seek independent legal advice

johnjames1 wrote: »

...As they had not sent out the statutory letters they had no right even to state “we will enter you house by force and fit pre-payment meters and you will beholden to us for gas and electricity for a very long time.” They were even made aware that the money was placed into a holding account.

Where do they state this?
In the link you provided, they said they would re-invoice you for the amount they believe you owe them because of the DD indemnity claims they have suffered and describe the legal options available to them should you fail to pay, once they have the courts on their side which they believe they will get. That would include obtaining a warrant of entry if necessary to install pre-payment meters to recover the debt.
They also offer you the chance to discuss the debt further with them if you so wish.

Regarding the holding account you mention, was that a separate account held by some kind of independent escrow service or just an account that you had complete control over?

"That is not correct, Mr Stanton ... once again you are incorrect Mr Stanton ... That is not correct, Mr Stanton... I'm afraid that your, your understanding of the ... law is incorrect. ... You're incorrect. Your understanding of the law is, erm, unfortunately extremely misguided and I think this is where this whole issue stems from. What you are doing is trying to interpret the law yourself and unfortunately you are failing on this count. And that is why I am quite happy to see this in a court of law and provide our defence"
Source: excerpts from track 3, approx. 2mins - 4 mins from start.

Take the hint and please seek independent legal advice
(despite you having claimed to have already sought 'sound legal advice')

littletommytucker

I think its funny that johnjames1 is stating in all the call recordings about all the different regulatory bodies that have agreed he is in the right and that he has lawyers etc telling him his legal stance, yet he has resorted to the general public on a forum for advice!