AMEX sent in debt collectors! Help

putty71

The story is that I have a bill from amex that I have not paid for ages because I cannot. I had previuosly sent amex a letter explaining i couldnt pay including my statement of affairs from the cccx website. They sent two letters, one which wasn't received , the other which was late giving me 7 days to ring them. When I received it I rang them to discuss my affairs only to be told it had been passed to a debt collector.
The letter from the dc gives me the chance to ring them, hopefully to agree a plan as i cannot pay in full. My fault for getting in debt but there you go.
Yesterday I sent off to amex a cca request so what I need to know now is, do I write to the DC agency, advising i am in dispute with amex, do i do nothing and run the risk of them knocking on my door, generally what??????

I am very worried about this and would appreciate some honest and frank advice please.

Thanks

Putty

DarkConvict

First, they can't come knocking at the door. They must make an appointment with you, if you refuse they can't send anyone and if they do are in breach of OFT guidelines - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

Do not ring them, send everything in writing, and were possible use the template letters on the forum.
If they harass you with phone calls, send the following letter - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=11571485&postcount=4


If they do get in touch, reply back with a letter stating you are awaiting a valid CCA from your creditor AMEX and consider this debt in dispute until it is recieved.
Template - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=26867923#post26867923
AMEX shouldn't refuse to furfill the CCA request as they would have to do it in the end anyway, and you are allowed to CCA the original creditor or DCA. If AMEX refuse the CCA then just send one to the new debt collector as well. Ensure your CCA is by recorded delivery!


Other templates
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=11571227#post11571227
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2078599

putty71

DarkConvict wrote: »

First, they can't come knocking at the door. They must make an appointment with you, if you refuse they can't send anyone and if they do are in breach of OFT guidelines - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

Do not ring them, send everything in writing, and were possible use the template letters on the forum.
If they harass you with phone calls, send the following letter - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=11571485&postcount=4


If they do get in touch, reply back with a letter stating you are awaiting a valid CCA from your creditor AMEX and consider this debt in dispute until it is recieved.
Template - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=26867923#post26867923
AMEX shouldn't refuse to furfill the CCA request as they would have to do it in the end anyway, and you are allowed to CCA the original creditor or DCA. If AMEX refuse the CCA then just send one to the new debt collector as well. Ensure your CCA is by recorded delivery!


Other templates
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=11571227#post11571227
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2078599

Thanks Dark, some really useful advice there. :T

As they have already sent a letter, shall I send a letter to them advising that the account is in dispute until the agreement is forthcoming?

And then assuming it is not valid, do I have them bang to rights?

Thanks

Putty

putty71

Dark

Is it likely that the debt collector would have the CCA?

DarkConvict

I believe the DCA is unlikely to have the CCA, generally when you request it from a DCA they will then forward that request to the original creditor to find the CCA.

The important bit is does the original creditor have the CCA, and is it enforceable. This topic should guide you though all the information you need to know on CCAs - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2078599

If the CCA is not enforceable this means the court cannot enforce it. legally the debt will exist until you pay it off, but they cannot take any money unless you are willing to pay. If you refuse to pay then after 6 years the debt becomes statute barred, still legally a debt but also another reason for been unenforceable. If you stop paying they may place a default on your account/credit file if they haven't already, if they try to place a default when the account is in dispute then, .. well they shouldn't as if they don't provide the CCA they are in default and cannot place defaults against you. So im told.

Never-in-doubt knows alot about CCAs and can advise on the best letter to send to the DCA. Consider dropping him a PM. As the debt isn't technically in dispute yet im not sure on which letter to send. I assume a hybrid between this one and this one

never-in-doubt

putty71 wrote: »

The story is that I have a bill from amex that I have not paid for ages because I cannot. I had previuosly sent amex a letter explaining i couldnt pay including my statement of affairs from the cccx website. They sent two letters, one which wasn't received , the other which was late giving me 7 days to ring them. When I received it I rang them to discuss my affairs only to be told it had been passed to a debt collector.
The letter from the dc gives me the chance to ring them, hopefully to agree a plan as i cannot pay in full. My fault for getting in debt but there you go.
Yesterday I sent off to amex a cca request so what I need to know now is, do I write to the DC agency, advising i am in dispute with amex, do i do nothing and run the risk of them knocking on my door, generally what??????

I am very worried about this and would appreciate some honest and frank advice please.

Thanks

Putty

As others have stated, they cannot just turn up at your door. The worse that will happen is they will default you, no big deal, other than restricting your credit for the next 6yrs. :mad:

To be honest, if you say that a DCA is involved then you should request your CCA direct from the DCA and not deal with Amex anymore cos they no longer have any say, assuming they followed protocol with regard to Assignment?

Therefore, you should send the 1. CCA Request with £1 to the DCA. If they do not respond within 14 days from the date of you sending it (recorded delivery) then you follow up with the following letter to the DCA: 2. CCA Reminder

The full details and process to follow, assuming you wish to allow for unenforceability, is here: Unenforceability & Template Letters II

If you want to get them off your back, and retain your credit file status then try and make a F&F offer to the DCA (usually around 20% - 40% of the debt).... If you can't afford this then continue with unenforceability route

never-in-doubt

putty71 wrote: »

Dark

Is it likely that the debt collector would have the CCA?

They should have, when they purchased the account from the OC they should have purchased all rights to the account/debt which means the OC is obliged to pass on all documents with the official Notice of Assignment (NOC)process.

You'd assume that the OC would have the CCA if assignment process wasn't carried out properly in which case it is possible to get a default removed (if the DCA places it and they never followed NOC rules)

putty71

never-in-doubt wrote: »

As others have stated, they cannot just turn up at your door. The worse that will happen is they will default you, no big deal, other than restricting your credit for the next 6yrs. :mad:

To be honest, if you say that a DCA is involved then you should request your CCA direct from the DCA and not deal with Amex anymore cos they no longer have any say, assuming they followed protocol with regard to Assignment?

Therefore, you should send the 1. CCA Request with £1 to the DCA. If they do not respond within 14 days from the date of you sending it (recorded delivery) then you follow up with the following letter to the DCA: 2. CCA Reminder

The full details and process to follow, assuming you wish to allow for unenforceability, is here: Unenforceability & Template Letters II

If you want to get them off your back, and retain your credit file status then try and make a F&F offer to the DCA (usually around 20% - 40% of the debt).... If you can't afford this then continue with unenforceability route

Thanks for the information.
The way I see it if I cannot get credit for 6 years, maybe not a bad thing as too much has put me in a muddle to start with!
So as you suggest, if I offer say 20% of 4k being £800, they may go for it? I currently have a claim into amex for charges agaisnt my account. If I am sucessful with this< I doubt if I would get a refund direct to me, but it would go to settling the debt. Therefore if they come back to me with a low offer, is it worth going back to them offering the refund in lieu of the debt? It may be worth a ret but would be worth knowing if others have sucessfully used this tactic.

It would also be good to know how many other here have found that their CCA's are unenforceable? A lot is said about it, but not many posts, unless I'm in the wrong place?

Any help?

Cheers
Putty

DarkConvict

Usually best to make F&F offers after you have paid them for 6-12months or longer of token payments, although some people do offers straight away.
I've seen more unenforceable CCA's than enforceable ones, but i wouldn't like to guess a % figure.

putty71

DarkConvict wrote: »

Usually best to make F&F offers after you have paid them for 6-12months or longer of token payments, although some people do offers straight away.
I've seen more unenforceable CCA's than enforceable ones, but i wouldn't like to guess a % figure.

I have just emailed them this letter in response-

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 19th November 2009.

Please be advised that presently I am waiting for American Express Services Europe Limited to forward to me a copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement. I would also be grateful to receive your notice of assignment from American Express Services Europe Limited, because with respect, I don’t know who you are.

Once I am in receipt of this information, I will respond accordingly.

Hopefully this is okay and I understand I am within my rights to do so.

Getting back to your post dark, I assume F&F offer is first and final, please advise and excuse ignorance!

You say I should offer a token gesture for 6 months first? Will they go for this?

DarkConvict

Full and Final actually, It is an offer to cover the debt in full (even if you are offer part of the amount) as you do not want them to return and try for the remaining amount later.

I'm not sure what a notice of assignment is, but going on what never-in-doubt has said it is what they should have been sent when they brought the debt.

If you can only afford token payments this is an option, but as you are awaiting a CCA request i would hold off until this request has been satisfied.