Converted flat build in 1920 ? What survey ?

oli_ro

Please help me interpret the general remarks included in the valuation report on my mortgage offer.

I have not received the home buyer survey yet, but the valuation report on the mortgage offer(just received it today) says the following:

"There is evidence of settlement. The movement is considered to be long-standing in nature and the risk of future movement taking place is acceptable"

Is this common to be mentioned on the valuation report ? Goes without saying that I am very worried about having this kind of problems affecting the flat we intend to buy.

The report also mentions "localised dampness, but does not materially affect the sealability of value of the property".

olly300

oli_ro wrote: »

Update: had the home buyer's survery done on the property I want to buy, and as it happened I was there while the survery was done. I was very lucky that the surveyor was very nice and asked me if I had any concerns before doing the inspection, was very thorough and explain the issues he was seeing and also agreed to inspect the loft.

I have not received the full report, but he discovered(among other things) a very long crack from the foundation all the way up to the roof of the house. The crack was not recent and was not very wide. He also pointed out that the other houses neigbouring this houce(terraced property in London) had an almost symetrical crack which I found very strange.
I am a bit worried about this as I have read horror stories with structural problems and all that.

What can I do now ? Is it even worth arranging a full structural survey or should I just ask a structural engineer ?

Depends where you are looking at the property like Doozergirl said some properties have cracks due to bomb damage, but I've been told in certain areas of London the cracks are due to subsidence due to the clay soil.

oli_ro

Well, in the report(the short version form the mortgage offer) he mentioned settlement as being the cause. The flat is in London.

Cazza

Yes, it is standard to mention these things, if they hadn't mentioned them at all they could be on shaky ground for not having noticed!

The phrasing they've used is standard wording for noting that it has happened but is not a problem. If it was a problem, it would have said something along the lines of "there is evidence of structural movement which is considered serious and progressive. Further investigations should take place before a decision to lend is made". The surveyor would know if the area you're buying in is prone to subsidence due to the soil structure and would have noted this on the report. TBH, it sounds as though he's just saying the property has settled, it is nearly 100 years old, so there will be a degree of settlement.

With regard to the damp, it looks as though you might want to get a damp report done for your own peace of mind but it's not serious enough to bother the surveyor or the lender. Get in a proper damp specialist to do a report, you shouldn't have to pay for this at all, they will let you know if anything needs to be done.

The fact that you have a mortgage offer means that on the whole the property is fine, if there were serious problems Nationwide wouldn't have issued this. Wait until you've read the Homebuyers report, then if you feel it's neccessary, contact the damp company.

lincroft1710

"There is evidence of settlement. The movement is considered to be long-standing in nature and the risk of future movement taking place is acceptable"

Virtually every property suffers from settlement. With a house you're putting several tons on to earth which will move a little bit. The surveyor believes any past/present/future movement is acceptable and not a sign of something more serious.

olly300

oli_ro wrote: »

The report also mentions "localised dampness, but does not materially affect the sealability of value of the property".

Older properties have problems with their damp course deteriorating over time.

If you are on the ground or basement floor this will really affect you. If you are above that level then the damp is caused by something else.

If you know nothing about damp your best bet is to find a friend or family member who knows something about it to have a look at the flat before spending money on calling in an expert.

Surveyors to cover themselves will state that a property has damp even if the damp is easily rectified because it is caused by condensation due to how the current occupants live.

Cazza

olly300 wrote: »

If you know nothing about damp your best bet is to find a friend or family member who knows something about it to have a look at the flat before spending money on calling in an expert.

I'm afraid I don't agree with this, I think you're better off getting a proper damp specialist in to do a report. Don't however, get anyone in who will charge you. The vast majority of reputable companies will do you a full report free of change, with an estimate of any works that need doing. I'd ask the surveyor for the names of 2 or 3 companies, most surveyors are usually very helpful with giving reccommendations (and I've never come accross anything which even whiffs of a kick back :rolleyes:)

David_Aldred

The deterioration of damp proof courses over time is vastly over-stated due primarily to misdiagnosis from those selling replacement damp proof courses for profit simply guessing this is the cause of low level dampness for their own gain. A slate or bitumen damp proof course may crack with settlement over time but such cracks would only permit very small amounts of dampness to rise up through it and certainly not full wall lengths of dampness as often stated by damp-proofing contractors.

Kindest regards David Aldred independent damp and timber surveyor

EdInvestor

olly300 wrote: »

A house built in 1920 is not Victorian. The house needs to have been built before 1901.

The architectural periods are generally reckoned to be

Georgian 1720-1837 (reigns of the 4 King Georges)
Victorian 1837 -1901 (lifetime of Queen Victoria)
Edwardian 1901-1910 (reign of King Edward V11)

The Regency period is part of the Georgian era, from 1811-1820.

Everything since 1910 is regarded as modern.

David_Aldred

Hi
I can see the attraction of Cazza recommending you have a 'free' survey for dampness problems, as at first sight this does seem a money saving recommendation. However it may be worth pointing out the following for your consideration before you rush to have such a free survey undertaken

Whilst there are some very good contractors it is unfortunately true in the damp-proofing industry that they are in the minority to those who are not very good at all including the one man bands to those who may look professional with their advertising literature and nationwide advertising such that the amount of companies that go into liquidation after a few years in this industry remains high. You as a layperson in these matters have no idea when you skip through the adverts for damp-proofing with all the logos and offers which is a good contractor and which is not.

The majority of damp-proofing contractors are unqualified and uninsured to give you any advice regarding the subject. They may be insured to undertake work at your home but that is not the same at all as having Professional Indemnity Insurance to write reports or give advice that you will be relying upon.

Rising damp cannot be proven by electrical damp meters. That can only be done by laboratory analysis of wall samples.

The majority of damp-proofing contractors have their staff inspect properties on a commision basis for finding work for their company. The 'free' survey is not free at all and has to be built into overheads from the work they find. A typical employee paid to inspect will be looking at anything from 3-6 houses a day and that includes writing the reports up with quotations etc. The reports they write will be standard paragraphs and from the visits they make they hope to get a return of between a third and half back as new damp proof course work.

Where a property is built with a damp proof course it is highly unlikely that dpc will have significantly failed. The recommendation of BS6576 concerning chemical dpc's is that because rising damp is so hard to prove and because it is so rare then to resolve all the other moisture sources where possible and then monitor for drying down before considering dpc failure.

Clearly then there is a massive difference between the amount of new damp proof courses going into properties mainly through misdiagnosis from those selling them and the amount that is actually justified.

A Chartered Surveyor is a person in a suit who is mindful of getting completely filthy under floors and their liabilites so why should they struggle when they can pass that liability onto a contractor and their free survey.

Well anyone can see that the above is a problem. With the above you are saying you are the specialist tell me what you like, quote what you like and I don't know if that is right or wrong I will just try and negotiate that cost and loss in the purchase price. If you were living in the property and just noticed some damp you might think harder about the decision to spend thousands of pounds on the back of somebody who may be unqualified simply guessing at what is required for their own gain but because it is lost in the sale negotiations you don't take as much attention to this as you really should.

Let me ask you this. Would you say to a builder I want an extension to my home, you the builder tell me what I should have built, name whatever price you want and just get on with it however you feel like doing it and without it being checked at all that the work is justifid and of a good standard. Of course you wouldn't and if somebody who came on here had said that we would all quite rightly say they were crackers for doing so.

Now cannot you see the similarity of the above to what you are proposing with the free survey and accepting blindly without question or the knowledge to do so whatever works they guess are required for their own gain.

You are going to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on buying this property and you want to know what is truly going on from somebody who will take their time over probably half a day to look throughout that property getting as filthy as is required. Who will spend the following day hand writing you a report that is specific to that property with photographs and drawings and explanations and is specifically qualified in the subject matter. A person who is fully insured to give you that advice and who you can rely upon in the knowledge that they are not there looking for work but to simply point you in the right direction with regard to how that property was originally built and what changes have occurred to bring about any problems currently apparent. Somebody who will specify what is to be done, what you shoudl alllow for in your purchase negotiations, will specify how any work is to be done and what you as a layperson should be looking for when you ask somebody to tender for that specification.

That is the role of the independent specialist surveyor in dampness and timber problems and a list of these professionals can be found on the Property Care Assocation (PCA) website under find a member and then selecting Freelance Surveyor or Consultant (the rest are contractors). Please look at the list and select one in your area to have a chat with about the matter. You are making a massive investment and you need to go into that with yours eyes completely wide open because the potential for personal loss through negligence as a result of inadeqaute investigation and misdiagnosis is staggering.

Please have a read through my other postings on the forum regarding woodworm, damp, damp meters, basements, cavity wall ties, dry rot, condensation, chimney breast problems etc which may be of some assistance with background information.

Hope this helps, kindest regards to all David Aldred Independent dampness and timber surveyor.