Loft space HELP!

stivy

Hi all,

I'm in the first stages of buying a house but I have some questions I hope you can all help with.

On viewing the property the vendor explained that the loft had been converted and used as a bedroom, however, no planning permission was sought because although it was used as a room the addition of stairs and two windows didn't increase or alter the structure externally and he isn't advertising it as a bedroom, just a storage/playroom. Estate agents said pretty much the same thing, don't worry lots of people have this done and its not a problem.

I opted for the slightly better survey then the one offered with the morgage. The survey has come back to say that alterations have been made to the roof structure and the missing or altered parts should be re-instated. I spoke to the surveyor, he tells me that he can't say what has been done because the work is covered by plaster and boarding (but there are no building regs). I brought this to the attention of the estate agent who contacted the local council, no planning permission (which I already knew). I've also spoken to a builder who I'm told by the estate agents is the person who carried out the work, he tells me that he did the work about seven years ago and fitted an 'a frame' to support the roof.

The estate agents, at my request, contacted a structural engineer. I was told that he would inspect but would need a builder with him to remove plaster and take up flooring, his charge was about 400 and this did not include the builder.

After reading the posts here that talk about building regs and indemnity insurance I'm absolutley lost.

Should I continue with the purchase or walk away?
If I buy will I get building insurance, will I have to disclose to the insurance company that I've been advised by the surveyor there might be a problem? If I don't disclose and the roof falls in will they void the claim becuase unregulated work was done on the property?

Any help will be very much appreciated.

poppysarah

stivy wrote: »

Hi all,
two windows didn't increase or alter the structure externally and he isn't advertising it as a bedroom, just a storage/playroom. Estate agents said pretty much the same thing, don't worry lots of people have this done and its not a problem. .

EAs say lots of things sometimes.

You know I think technically windows did alter the external structure.

Has it got building regs?

Entirely up to you - are there other less troublesome houses available?

stivy

I know, that's why I said it came from the estate agents so readers could take it with a pinch of salt

No building regs for the work carried out. From what I saw when viewing the loft has been boarded out and plastered, two flush windows fitted (dorma?), electrics and lights and fixed (small) staircase.

zzzLazyDaisy

You may hit problems getting a mortgage if the required documents are not in place, so it might be worth running this past a conveyancing solicitor before you get too far down the line.

Obviously I can't speak for any other area, but the people who had my house before me extended up into the attic, with a dormer window and fixed staircase, and they had to have planning permission. They told me that the council were very particular and insisted on changes that cost them quite a bit extra.

My attic rooms can't be used as bedrooms because the roof has no gable end, so the ceilings slope front and back, but also at the sides, so there is little head room for an adult. It was described as storage/children's play room on the particulars. The alterations were done around 2001.

Swishy_bell

As far as I know (though I may be wrong) planning permission is not needed as you haven't fit a dormer window to the front of the property. and even if it was needed as the changes are more than four years old the council can't enforce anything now so that shouldn't worry you.

In terms of building regs you can get indemnity insurance to cover you if anybosy decided they wanted it putting back to orginal, which is very unlikely. However it Does NOT prove that the structure is safe in terms of support for the roof and the floor. The fact that it is not advertised as a bed room would worry me as this often means they have not re-enformced the floor properly and what you have is a nice windowed storage area not a room.

This is what the structual survey is for. If he says everything is fine then you should be safe as you would have come back to the surveyor if anything happens. It's really important to make sure he can see everything he needs to though (which is what the builder is for) otherwise the survey will be full of caveats and you wont really know anything more about weather it is safe.

Just been going through exactly the same so hope that helps!

olias

You have no way of knowing if the structural alterations involving this 'frame' were adequate. The owner chose to avoid seeking building regs approval and therefore cannot prove that the structure is safe. The indemnity insurance mentioned is only to cover you if the council finds out and persues you to fix things to current building regs standards. It does not cover you if the roof caves in.

I would walk away, or if you really want the house and your lender is happy to lend on it, then offer £15-25000 below what you were going to (the potential cost of ripping everything out and reinstating with a 'proper' loft conversion to current regs).

Olias

stivy

Thanks everyone for your responses.

The purchase price is 91,000 so don't think the vendor would take the bullet on a reduction of 15,000 - 25,000. I worry about moving forward and then when it comes to reselling facing the same type of issue from prospective buyers.

I'm on the phone with an insurance company now to find out if I would get insurance on such a property with the changes that have been made, and how I might be affected if I made a claim.

Cheers again for all responses, feels better just to talk to others about this.

begbeer

I think the law states that whilst you do not need planning for a loft converison you do need building regs

headcoat

I wouldn't be too worried about planning permission, as by the sounds of it you wouldn't require it. However I would also write to the the Planners with a drawing showing the work I am doing or at least describe the works and get in writing from them that it is permitted development.

I would be more concerned about not having B Regs, this could be applied for retrospectively, but would involve opening area up and providing details on the works carried out. This may also involve improving any work already carried out in order to comply.

You could of course buy the property but I would not include the conversion in the valuation and as such it would simply be a boarded out attic space adding no value to the property.

pie81

As stated above while planning permission may not be needed (varies from council to council) buildings regs certainly are.

The danger if the conversion hasn't been done properly is not just about whether the floor is strong enough to hold weight... it's also that if some cross beams were removed to open up the space, then the house may start falling apart!! because these cross beams effectively hold the walls of the house together. If you can get insurance to cover for this risk then OK but personally I'd want it checked out in advance.

zzzLazyDaisy

Also remember that when YOU come to sell, your potential buyers will be facing the same issues.