Wet wall

tomas198

I have purchased a property which I have just detected rising damp on one wall in the kitchen (outside wall).
It has a concrete foundation and a DPM.
I don't actually think it is true rising damp (i.e. from the foundations) as I noticed that the isolation valve to the washing machine was leaking very slighty.
The property has been empty for a year so although a small drip I feel dozns of gallons of water has seeped through and hence the rising damp (detected by a damp meter).
Further evidence was when I took up two layers of lyno and old I tiles stuck down with bitumen.
There was a slight visable wetness and the tiles came up with ease as opposed the the opposite of the room the tiles are stuck down completely.
What is my best course of action? I was thinking of a de-humidifier and time to see of the problem sorts it's self-out.
Any clues to how long this could be now that winter has arrived?

David_Aldred

Hi - please look up my posts on here regarding damp and have a read. If you are still struggling will try to answer your problems. Once the moisture source is resolved the best that can be hoped for is a rate of drying down of 25mm wall thickness per calender month so a nine inch thick wall is 9 months to dry down naturally. Yes an industrial sized de-humidifier on short term rent would help. Kindest regards David Aldred Independent damp and timber surveyor

tomas198

Thankyou, I will check it out.

Do you no if there is any action I can take against the surveyor who missed this along with two other damp/wet patches on the first floor caused by a leaking roof?

a_j_mair

As you said first instance would be to fix/remove leak

remove all wet flooring etc then id get a heater and de humidifier in for a week then investigate further

David_Aldred

Hi,
The surveyor should act with reasonable care and skill of a person in his profession. It makes no difference if the survey was for free as often happens when a damp-proofing contractor inspects or whether you paid for it. The duty of care owed to you is still to act with reasonable care and skill even if it was only a valuation survey done by a Chartered surveyor for the lender because it is reasonable to assume you would act upon the advice within a valuation report.

Should the surveyor have spotted the problem? The question to be asked is at the time of the surveyors visit was it reasonable for them to have found the problem?

The surveyor will argue that if there were obstructions it was not reasonable for them to say move a fitted kitchen out of the way to meter the wall behind for dampness.

However if there was a paper trail of evidence to suggest a problem may have existed then the surveyor should follow that paper trail of evidence to investigate the problem and if they cannot inspect any further because of the obstruction then they should place you on notice of the risk and recommend further investigation by opening up if necessary and in the meantime recommend you budget for the risk in your purchase negotiations until proved otherwise.

So was there a paper trail of evidence for them to have picked up on during their visit? Was there skirting board and base of door casings that could have been metered by the surveyor that would have revealed a moisture content above the threshold of decay and alerted them to the fault and / or was it possible for the surveyor to probe with the damp meter and sample floor and wall readings in the area of concern. Note good damp meters have search modes that are not physically damaging to surfaces.

The courts realise that some properties are quicker to inspect than others but this makes no difference to the liability - in other words it is no defence for the surveyor to state they had to do five valuation surveys a day and didn't have time to look properly. Also it makes no difference how experienced that surveyor is such it is no defence to claim they were new to the job and didn't know they should look in such detail.

It is fair to say that the vast majority of claims against Chartered Surveyors never come to court and are settled before that happens often by the surveyor's professional indemnity insurers. If you or your legal advisors feel you have a reasonable claim against a Chartered Surveyor the Chartered Surveyor may suggest you put your claim into the RICS Arbitatration scheme but obviously as this is rather 'in house' you may opt to simply and often more quickly claim through the County Court small claims procedures.

Of note here since we are discussing dampness it may just be worth mentioning that a damp proofing contractor who undertakes an inspection and issues advice to a person whether that advice is oral or written or whether or not they charge for that advice is liable for the advice they give. In other words they are still very much liable for that 'free survey'.

In particualr if they misdiagnosed a problem and recommended you spend money on something that was not necessary and / or was deemed to have damaged your property such as drilling holes into a wall to install a damp proof course when that was not the cause of the problem, or they sprayed your house for woodworm that was actually already inactive they run a very real risk of being held liable.

In addition the court expects a greater duty of care from a person who calls themself a specialist such that a damp-proofing contractor who advertises themselves as a specialist in damp /timber / wall ties is deemed to have a greater knowledge of these subjects and hence greater duty of care in these subjects than say a general building contractor who just had a go at damp-proofing because you asked them.

Also many damp proofing contractors either ignore or don't realise that they should have professional indemnity (PI) insurance for the 'free' or charged reports they write and advice they give.

Getting public liability and employers liability insurance is, in comparison to PI insurance, relatively easy to obtain for any contractor. The former may cover them for the work they actually do but it does not cover them for the reports and advice they give and for that you need PI insurance. Getting PI insurance for contractors is another matter entirely as those insuring want to see that the person they are insuring is qualified in the subject matter they are advising upon and hence insurable to give that advice others will rely upon.

Without such insurance the damp-proofing contractor runs the risk being held personally liable should they be found at fault with the advice and recommendations they gave to a client.

Additionally many damp-proofing / timber treatment / cavity wall tie contractors don't have any qualifiactions in these subjects at all and as such could not obtain professional indemnity insurance to cover the reports and advice they issue.

Hope this helps, kindest regards David Aldred Independent damp and timber surveyor

tomas198

Thanks for yet more info.

I very much doubt this surveyor is a chartered surveyor, his main work is as an architect.

I done a quote on line for a full buildings survey as the house had been extended.

I actually attended with him when the survey was done as I requested this as I had a lot of measurements to do etc etc..

The property was empty for about a year due to probate going through. he turned up with only a clip board!! No spirit level, no binoculars and sadly no damp meter. There is no excuse of things being in the way as everthing had been cleared out of the house. Where the problem that I found with the leak where the washing machine originally was, was of course empty and you can actually see the damp marks on the wall paper.

He told me over the phone that it would take 2-3 hours. However he was done in 50 minutes.

I have since detected by a damp meter various damp patches, according to the meter requires immediate attention!!

I'm hoping that the meter which cost about £13 is unreliable and over sensitive, but I doubt it as when I do a reading higher up it is normal.

I suppose him not being a chartered surveyor will affect my chances of claiming against his insurance?

David_Aldred

Hi - thanks for more info and obviously you will need to check with your legal advisors but in principle from what you are saying I would imagine he remains liable because he took it upon himself to advise you and in doing so had a duty of care to do so with reasonable care and skill. If it was outside his scope of expertise he should have refused to get involved. A Chartered Architect will have PI insurance and obviously given their profession they are expected to have a good understanding of building construction and defects therein and if they extend the work they take on to include general building surveying and project management they must accept the risks of if they do so negligently.

Kindest regards, David Aldred Independent dampness and timber surveyor.

roswell

tomas198 wrote: »

I took up two layers of lyno and old I tiles stuck down with bitumen.

out of interest were these brown tiles of 1mm construction ? if so thier is a risk that these contain asbestos be carefull not to break them and once you have the damp sorted look at getting these taken out.

tomas198

Yes, the ones in the kitchen were brown with a yellow and blue backing (i.e. some blue and some yellow, actually done in a chequered affect, why I dont know). The others in on ground floor are not brown but same size I thnk about 22cm square.

I was careful not to break any, the one good thing about the leak was the came up very easy! But still about 20 to get up which are stuck down really well.

Any clues how to get these up in one piece?

Thanks for all your responses!

paddypaws101

Ahh, this sponds very similar to what I have just been through after a pipe leaked buried in my concrete kitchen floor. I - girly that I am- stripped the floor up using my hairdryer and steam iron. Yes, and it worked very well indeed...laying an old towel down, letting the iron steam away for a minute or two, then peeling back the tile with a few blasts of hot air when needed. A more butch approach would involve very vigorous chipping with a stripper or shovel.
I had de-humidifying equipment from the insurance company and it sucked bloomin gallons of water out of somewhere...just not the floor. Every week they came over with their stupid damp meters and oohed and aahed about the 100% readings as the months rolled by.
In an old house it just seems to suck water into that room and sweat the concrete in some way. Useless.
I have now settled on having a damp proof screed laid before new Amtico tiles ( wood or laminate too risky )
Oh and they were concerned about asbestos in my tiles too...it came back negative in the end..but a flooring contractor said the amount present was so minimal as not to be a risk and that when they removed them as pasrt of a job they did not have to take special precautions with disposal. ( Don't know how safe that advice was though )