why is only the tenants that have to provide references?

pawpurrs

Lisa Lovely to hear from you.
So sorry to hear about your cat, as you can prob tell from my user name, I am a cat lover, what a horrible way to lose a friend.
Hows the wee bairn? Are you renting again now? Still looking to buy somewhere? Hows the new buisness doing?
I am renting at the moment and the house is pretty run down too, and I know the LL, know there are issues, but the property was ideal for us in many ways, and I went in to with my eyes open so to speak. I just deal with most little issues myself.
Checking out LLS is a sensible idea, but where I wanted to rent there just isnt much available, most things get rented by word of mouth, and if you were demanding they would just rent to someone else.

chucknorris

Fly_Baby wrote: »

I agree with OP completely. There are ways a tenant can with a bad landlord but there are also ways of dealing with a bad tenant - but LLs still want references, for which tenants are paying themselves by the way.

I lived in a few rented properties and although I was lucky with most of landlords it would have been nice for ME to be reassured too that I was not entering into a costly renting agreement without safeguarding myself. Yes, the landlord is handing over the keys for his properties, but I am making a financial commitment too - and depending on the T&C the earliest I can get out of it is after 6 months. Not to mention MY expense for moving and repeated reference/admin fees if I want to exercise my right and move away from the bad landlord.

I once rented privately and the LL was acting by the book which is good - but just to think what was in that book for THEIR piece of mind. The LL wanted both my and my husband's payslips AND reference from employer AND reference from my two previous landlords AND bank statements for the past 6 months AND credit reference check. How many times over was I supposed to prove that I had a job, an income and was paying my rent on time? When did I ever get a proof that they would be a good landlord doing repairs on time? They were a first time landlord - if they were a first time renter it might not be easy!

I would absolutely support an initiative - if it ever becomes an initiative - to introduce compulsory checks and references for landlords. It is only fair and justified by the volume of problems good tenants are experiencing with LLs.

I think the point you are missing is that if a LL is poor the tenant can move on after the tenancy agreement runs its course, if the tenant is poor the LL could have to resort to eviction procedures which can really leave them exposed financially, that is the difference. After having to evict a tenant a couple of years ago I am now much more wary of who I let into my property because the eviction process is so slow.

Of course tenants should make their own enquires, 99% of the time my outgoing tenants show the prospective incoming tenants around when I am not there, so they have plenty opportunity to question them about me and the property (in fact I make a point of telling them to do this). Within reason I will supply most info requested to tenants too, like proof of ownership for example.

Fly_Baby

chucknorris wrote: »

I think the point you are missing is that if a LL is poor the tenant can move on after the tenancy agreement runs its course, if the tenant is poor the LL could have to resort to eviction procedures which can really leave them exposed financially, that is the difference. After having to evict a tenant a couple of years ago I am now much more wary of who I let into my property because the eviction process is so slow.

Of course tenants should make their own enquires, 99% of the time my outgoing tenants show the prospective incoming tenants around when I am not there, so they have plenty opportunity to question them about me and the property. Within reason I will supply most info requested to tenants too, like proof of ownership for example.

A very fair point. But I would guess that non-paying tenants are fewer than problematic landlords. If I wanted to summarise opinions given on this forum in respect of bad landlords the general and most frequently given advice would be - "Just move out". Which has to imply that tenants are very vulnerable de facto even though they have many rights de jure.

And to think of it: tenants all have to provide references and landlords are supposedly happy with those references when they let tenants move in. Then how come there are bad, negligent, non-paying tenants at all? Wouldn't they be 'filtered' at the stage of obtaining references? So it's not that simple. And so there is no reason why landlords cannot do the same, for the tenant's reassurance.

I can check the house ownership myself on the Land Registry site. What I cannot check is how quick the landlord was with repairs before, did he paint the house to make it nicer or to hide the traces of damp, did he withhold any of the previous tenant's deposit. Getting a reference from previous tenants would be very useful - LLs DO want and get references from previous landlords - how is it any different?

Viewing are usually done with either landlord or the agent and the current tenant might not want to be totally honest to prospective tenants - they might need to move out quickly and so would be keen for the property to be taken over asap. And after all, they still have to get their deposit back so might prefer to keep bad feedback about the landlord to themselves in the landlord's presence.

You sound a good and considerate landlord but I very much doubt that every LL would be happy to provide any/all of the above at the tenant's request.

chucknorris

Fly_Baby wrote: »

And to think of it: tenants all have to provide references and landlords are supposedly happy with those references when they let tenants move in. Then how come there are bad, negligent, non-paying tenants at all? Wouldn't they be 'filtered' at the stage of obtaining references? So it's not that simple.

Well last time we were vetting tenants (August) when we cross referenced their payslips to their bank accounts we discovered that their payslips were counterfeit, they were hoping to get in, then claim housing benefit. If we had not been vigilent we would have been lumbered.

I can check the house ownership myself on the Land Registry site. What I cannot check is how quick the landlord was with repairs before, did he paint the house to make it nicer or to hide the traces of damp, did he withhold any of the previous tenant's deposit. Getting a reference from previous tenants would be very useful - LLs DO want and get references from previous landlords - how is it any different?

As I said there is no difference, clued up tenants have been doing this for years, certianly with me as they meet the existing tenants when they view.

You sound very willing to do it but I very much doubt that every LL would be happy to provide any/all of the above at the tenant's request.

Proportionally there will be as many LL idiots as there are in the general population. Any LL that does not carry out repairs quickly risks:

1. Eventually paying more for the repair (as things tend to get worse)

2. Bad LL and tenant relationships, this just makes the management issue much more diffiult (why make life more difficult)

3. Possible voids by not having the property spick and span.

4. Higher costs and more time and effort by having to find new tenants more regularly (my tenants tend to renew and stay on for a few years, unless their circumstances do not allow).

lisa-loves-cats

pawpurrs wrote: »

Lisa Lovely to hear from you.
So sorry to hear about your cat, as you can prob tell from my user name, I am a cat lover, what a horrible way to lose a friend.
Hows the wee bairn? Are you renting again now? Still looking to buy somewhere? Hows the new buisness doing?
I am renting at the moment and the house is pretty run down too, and I know the LL, know there are issues, but the property was ideal for us in many ways, and I went in to with my eyes open so to speak. I just deal with most little issues myself.
Checking out LLS is a sensible idea, but where I wanted to rent there just isnt much available, most things get rented by word of mouth, and if you were demanding they would just rent to someone else.

hi Pawpurrs,

How are you!

Yes losing 'Buddy' was just awful I miss him so much!

we have moved into another rental property now as still looking for the next dream property, plus no one seems to know what the market is going to do

We are so busy with the little one and the business too, that we are happy to wait for now.

Little issues are fine, and I think most people expect there to be some and deal with them themselves, goodness knows ANYBODY living in any property has the odd thing pop up that needs doing, but this place ended up to be just awful.

pawpurrs

I am ok thanks, still soldering on, just got a new job. We are currently buying again, not a dream house, but one I think I can make nice, and the price was right, and its in the right location.

lisa-loves-cats

chucknorris wrote: »

99% of the time my outgoing tenants show the prospective incoming tenants around when I am not there, so they have plenty opportunity to question them about me and the property (in fact I make a point of telling them to do this). Within reason I will supply most info requested to tenants too, like proof of ownership for example.

This made me wonder why the agents wouldn't allow me to show any potential tenants the property, but then I asked myself, what would I say if they asked me how it was living at the property? How did I find the agents/LL? These thoughts are what made me feel how unfair it all was.

chucknorris

lisa-loves-cats wrote: »

This made me wonder why the agents wouldn't allow me to show any potential tenants the property, but then I asked myself, what would I say if they asked me how it was living at the property? How did I find the agents/LL? These thoughts are what made me feel how unfair it all was.

I don't tend to use agents, they charge high fees to both me and the tenants, cause problems by extending the line of communication and I am a chartered surveyor so they won't be adding any necessary talents or skills to the process.

When I have used agents in the past (when on holiday or the market was very poor) I have always had problems, to be fair though the last time was ok, but that is once from 4/5 times, so I tend to do it myself.

gemstars

I don't have any advice, but being a cat person I just wanted to say I'm very sorry for your loss :-(

tbs624

lisa-loves-cats wrote: »

This made me wonder why the agents wouldn't allow me to show any potential tenants the property, but then I asked myself, what would I say if they asked me how it was living at the property? How did I find the agents/LL? These thoughts are what made me feel how unfair it all was.

The agents act for the LL, who will be paying them for a service which includes showing potential new Ts round. I am sure we can all picture the thread - "my LL who has already failed with x,y z now expects me to show new T s round, shouldn't she be paying her LA to do it?"

What is needed is for all potential Ts to acquaint themselves with the rights and obligations of both parties to a rental contract and ask plenty of questions, rather than seeking to rely on some tick box produced by "the authorities".

The huge surge in requests for CRB checks for all manner of things is a similar area - just because someone has a clear CRB at that one point in time doesn't mean (a) that they aren't doing something decidedly dodgy, it just means they haven't yet been caught doing it yet, and/ or (b) that they are not likely to do something "wrong" a month down the line.

There is a sticky up at the top of this board with much useful info for any tenant, but especially for newbies. There is plentiful legislation and much available guidance on the subject of repairs and how to deal with errant LLs.