Previous tenant's dept at shared house

wicketcw

Hi, I am looking for some advice if anyone can help. I am afraid this will be a long explanation...

I moved into a shared house in August this year.

Since moving in I have found out that there is outstanding dept attributed to previous tenants of the house, only one of these people remain at the house but there was 4 names on the bill (though in fact there are more than 4 who are responsible).
This one remaining tenant has paid their share of the bills and has kept records but she cannot pay for everyone's share (nor should she).

The reason the bill got so high was that the more dominant members of the house took control of the bills and regular meter reading were not done, they chose to believe the energy companies inaccurate estimates. When the bossy tenants moved out this remaining tenant took reading and submitted them, resulting in a massive bill but of course it didn't arrive until the others were gone.

The landlord and his administrative lady are well aware of this outstanding debt . The landlord recently informed the energy company of all the names who are liable, we believe they have now submitted tenancy agreements with dates, however, the letters chasing the debt are still sent to this address!!! I am led to believe that they have done nothing to inform the ex-tenants that this bill even exists.
If it were me I would want to know if there was a debt in my name!

Well now the dept has moved from the energy company to a debt collector. I only hear of any news via my house mate because none of it is addressed to me so I may not know if it progresses beyond this.

I am worried on various counts:

1. I think it is unfair that this has all landed on one poor girl who still lives here, the land lord doesn't seem to care even remotely and it must be very stressful for her.
2. What if this happens to me when I move out and there is a dept retained after I leave?
3. What if the baliffs come round an steel all my stuff (I have more worth nicking than she does)?

Is there any advice anyone can give me? My housemate has tried reasoning with both the energy company and the debt collectors. Shouldn't the land lord take more responsibilty for this? Surely they have an obligation to retain records, including forwarding addresses for their ex tenants? Any ideas on legal standpoints? Thanks in advance.

Cardew

The problem is, that though all people living in the house were jointly responsible for the bills, the Utility Companies can and will come after the whole debt from any individual named on the bill.

Similarly a DCA(Debt collection agency) will not chase 4 people, they have the names of one person and will hound her.

Has this remaining occupant chased the other tenants?

wicketcw

She isn't in contact with most of them, only one since the additional names were added.

To be honest, I don't think she got on too well with the others. They wouldn't co-operate when she advised them to check the readings and I think they were quite unkind to her generally.

I think that the land lord should keep the forwarding addresses but I don't know if he did.

Fire_Fox

You say shouldn't the landlord take more responsibility for this ... the harsh answer is no, your housemate needs to take more responsibility for the current situation. She is the one, quite legally, having her credit rating wrecked by this debt and is responsible for paying the utilities as per her tenancy agreement. The landlord is not responsible for managing squabbles or even bullying within the household.

Whilst I think it's lovely you are willing to support your housemate, it's possible that being babied by friends and family has lead to her being unable to deal with the current situation effectively. If she can use a computer, point her in the direction of the Debt-free Wannabe board, the template letters sticky, links to this site: http://www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/

My final piece of advice is to remind you that you have only heard one side of the story. It's not impossible that your new housemate (who you appear to hardly know) has a natural talent for bending the truth, getting people to feel sorry for her and sort out her mess. It's not that difficult to covertly submit meter readings before the other tenants vacated the property.

Cardew

I am afraid it is a harsh lesson your friend will have to learn.

Similar situations happen time and time again - particularly with students - someone is left 'holding the baby'.

It will be very difficult for her to prove the others were responsible for part of a bill that arrived after they left the house(Yes I do understand your point about estimated bills) and whilst they are undoubtedly morally responsible for their share of most of the bill, it will be a lot of trouble and expense to chase them through the legal system.

laurel7172

Unfortunately, living in a shared house is a skill that comes with practice. When I was at college, we wrote down when we used the phone. There was always a sizeable shortage on the bill, and for the first two quarters the other girl and I split it between us (on the grounds that we used the phone the most and the mistake was probably ours). But it got to the point where our bill was so expensive that we stopped using the phone-and the shortfall doubled. We realised that we were so honest we always rounded up, and that had been masking the extent of somebody else's deceit. We staked out the phone for a few days, made certain who it was, and made sure we charged the entire shortfall to him from then onwards.

wicketcw

Thanks for your replies. I do think it is a harsh lesson she has learnt and I am certain she will never make that mistake again. It is sad because I think that I myself am quite mistrusting and I wish I wasn't like that but there are always things like this that back that paranoia up.

I do think the land lord is partially responsible (even if only morally) because at least they have a legal contract between themselves and the tenants and we have nothing but trust (which, going by past evidence doesn't count for much). And the land lord should have a responsibility to obtain forwarding addresses, previous letting agents have ensured they obtained this information for that very purpose.

To Fire Fox, the person I am talking about, I do know her quite well now. She is not deceitful and is very straight forward so I do believe her. I think she is kicking herself that she didn't supply the reading earlier but anyone who has been bullied will know how difficult it can be to stick up for yourself, her description of the situation has also been corroborated by another who I met who lived her too.
You are right to point out that there are always two sides however, I feel quite strongly that I must stick up for her in this instance.

spiro

The only course of action open that I can think of is for her to take the other tenants to the small claims court to recoup their share of the bill. I have no experience of this but I understand it is fairly straightforward and cheap.
Having seen this sort of post numerous times I think there are only two answers;
1) Use a prepayment meter - no money no fuel, or
2) Joint bank account to pay bills that everyone pays £x into every week and you all have to sign to draw money from the account.

Cardew

spiro wrote: »

The only course of action open that I can think of is for her to take the other tenants to the small claims court to recoup their share of the bill. I have no experience of this but I understand it is fairly straightforward and cheap.
Having seen this sort of post numerous times I think there are only two answers;

2) Joint bank account to pay bills that everyone pays £x into every week and you all have to sign to draw money from the account.

It is fairly straightforward to use the small claims court, but still costs.

The difficulties are firstly tracing the people involved.

Then what evidence will you give if you take them to court.

Don't forget that there is no suggestion that these people didn't pay for the gas and electricity i.e. walk away with money owing.

The bill in question arrived some time after they left, and whilst some proportion of that bill is undoubtedly their moral responsibility, how much should be apportioned?

Even using a joint bank account would not help - the bills were all paid for the period they were in the house.

Mynewt

To protect yourself make sure that all bills recieved during your period of tenancy are based on actual meter readings, ensure all bills are cleared in full no matter the pressure you may need to put on the remaining tenants.

when you move out of the property close your account to an actual reading - ensure a new one is created with the remaining teants names on the account and that the final bill is cleared equally by all parties.

Taking them to a small claims court is an option and proving consumption shouldn't really be an issue either. If you cna prove that bills paid during their occupancy were paid on estiamted readings and a rading obtained shortly after their occupancy generated an accurate balance. Every Judge in his/her right mind will be able to connect the dots.

Just make sure you have copies of all the estiamted bills, a statement of account showing payments, her own bank statement showing payments she has made etc when you attend the court.

Premier_2

wicketcw wrote: »

...
I do think the land lord is partially responsible (even if only morally) because at least they have a legal contract between themselves and the tenants and we have nothing but trust (which, going by past evidence doesn't count for much). And the land lord should have a responsibility to obtain forwarding addresses, previous letting agents have ensured they obtained this information for that very purpose....

The contract between the LL & T is essentially that of letting the property for a fee (rent). Nothing to do with expenditure the tenants take on. You wouldn't expect the LL to be responsible for paying for a plasma TV one of the tenants decides to buy on the never never would you? The same goes for gas or electricity. Most TAs specifically state who is responsible for paying the utilities.

There is nothing to stop tenants getting a contract drawn up and agreed between them if they want. Any solicitor will do this for them. But it's probably not necessary in most cases. A verbal agreement would be (almost) just as good in any small claims action brought by the payer against sharing housemates who fail to pay their share of the bill.

There is no obligation on the landlord to obtain forwarding addresses, but if the letting agent has forwarding addresses, then the landlord effectively does have them. The letting agent is working on behalf and and being paid for by the landlord. Just because the LL has the forwarding addresses doesn't make him liable for the Ts debts.