Help please re type of joint ownership

HanSpan

I posted a question on 6 November and haven't had any responses - I wonder if the title was offputting? Anyway I really would be grateful for some help so thought I'd try again:


I'm looking for some information on how to go about changing the manner in which my partner and I own our house from tenants in common to joint tenants. I'd rather do this without going to a solicitor if at all possible!

We have been living together for 20 years, unmarried with no previous marriages and no children or other dependants.

We bought the house in 1996 and agreed on a 60/40 split in his favour due to differences in the amount of cash we had for a deposit. However in the years since then I have paid towards things such as his car so that we now agree we should own the house 50/50. We both would want our % to go to the other if we died so it seems to me we should now be joint tenants. However I'm not actually sure what the land registry thinks the situation is and I can't find the paper we originally signed about the 60/40 split!

I've been and looked at the land registry and downloaded the title extract which shows the Title Absolute in our joint names and a restriction in favour of our mortgage company but nothing that I can see that indicates a restriction of on us against each other. I'm now wondering if it was incorrectly registered as joint tenants all along.
1: Can anyone tell me how I can find out?
2: Alternatively could I just complete an RX3 form and send to the land registry to change it to joint tenants (which is free) showing its to cancel the restriction registered on 'date house registered' and see what happens?

To add a twist we bought additional land at the back of the house (for a bigger garden) in 2005. This is shown separately with land registry, is again Title absolute with us both, but has a restriction that says 'No disposition by a sole proprietor ...... unless authorised by an order of the court'. Which makes me think the land is held as tenants in common when I thought we'd bought this as joint tenants. Grrrrr.
Again is there an easy (and preferably free or very cheap - not several £100 to a solicitor) way to find out? Or could I just do the same with this and send an RX3.

I have to say the land registry site is fab - for £4 a go you can get details of any registered property so I've done my Dad's for him too.

Debt_Free_Chick

Call the LR and discuss with them. They're very helpful.

blckbrd

i can remember a friends doing this and I don't think it was hard for them. Found a link that helps explain.

http://www.questbrook.co.uk/joint.htm - latter third of the page.

A tenner for the doc doesn't seem expensive but then it might only be 2 lines long... Maybe try googling for a sample/template.

HanSpan

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Call the LR and discuss with them. They're very helpful.

Never even thought of that. duh! Thanks

HanSpan

blckbrd wrote: »

i can remember a friends doing this and I don't think it was hard for them. Found a link that helps explain.

http://www.questbrook.co.uk/joint.htm - latter third of the page.

A tenner for the doc doesn't seem expensive but then it might only be 2 lines long... Maybe try googling for a sample/template.

Thanks for the link - it confirms I need to do an RX3 but, having searched for something like the 'declaration as to joint ownership' they say I also need, it seems everyone else wants to sever joint tenancy not enter into it!
I will have a harder search but may have to give in and pay a tenner or just risk the RX3 only.

blckbrd

http://www.firstrungnow.com/joint-ownership/declaration-of-trust.aspx

think this is it but i really wouldn't know...

HanSpan

blckbrd wrote: »

http://www.firstrungnow.com/joint-ownership/declaration-of-trust.aspx

think this is it but i really wouldn't know...

I did find that but the free one it contains seems to be for unequal shares - thus the sort of agreement we have at the moment not the joint tenants type.
This makes my head hurt!

blckbrd

Hate feeling beaten by Google... But it seems the declaration really only relates to unequal shares because 'equal shares are presumed'. Did a search on 'declaration of trust joint tenancy equal shares' and the "did you mean... unequal..." comes up.

The issues seem to be around not having equal shares or being tenants in common rather than being joint tenants.

See this doc http://www.punchrobson.co.uk/conveyancing-4/information-articles-11/joint-ownership-48.html

HanSpan

blckbrd wrote: »

Hate feeling beaten by Google... But it seems the declaration really only relates to unequal shares because 'equal shares are presumed'. Did a search on 'declaration of trust joint tenancy equal shares' and the "did you mean... unequal..." comes up.

The issues seem to be around not having equal shares or being tenants in common rather than being joint tenants.

See this doc http://www.punchrobson.co.uk/conveyancing-4/information-articles-11/joint-ownership-48.html

I feel the same - had planned to go and have a serious hunt round today with OH not battling for the PC but I think you've solved it! Having read the site you pointed me to this time and then gone back to the other I think we need a declaration that says only:

The Co-Owners declare that as from the date of this deed they will hold the Property subject to the Mortgage jointly both legally and beneficially on trust for themselves

with all the stuff about 'fixed shares' left out. It will be a very short document


Then I think I'll give land registry a call just to make sure that and the RX3 is all we need.

Thanks so much for the help.

timmyt

the answer is that if you are tenants in common now, and you simply and consesually wish to revert back to joint tenants, you re-declare, and support it with an RX3 if you wish. The Land Registry will help you.

Sign a iece of paper saying from today you wish to revert from t-in-c to joint tenants and have your signatures witnessed.

That is the point, you delcare in the TR1 that you holld as either, so you re-declare.

But why not use a lawyer to get it right!!!!!!!!!! It's importamt.

Or keep it t-in-common and jst make sure your wills leave your shares to each other.

Remember, if holding as tenants in common, you must by definition have a will, or the whole point of holding as t-in-c could be frustrated.

HanSpan

timmyt wrote: »

the answer is that if you are tenants in common now, and you simply and consesually wish to revert back to joint tenants, you re-declare, and support it with an RX3 if you wish. The Land Registry will help you.

Sign a iece of paper saying from today you wish to revert from t-in-c to joint tenants and have your signatures witnessed.

That is the point, you delcare in the TR1 that you holld as either, so you re-declare.

But why not use a lawyer to get it right!!!!!!!!!! It's importamt.

Or keep it t-in-common and jst make sure your wills leave your shares to each other.

Remember, if holding as tenants in common, you must by definition have a will, or the whole point of holding as t-in-c could be frustrated.

thanks
I've spoken to Land Registry, completed declaration of trusts and RX3s and put on a covering letter.
I can't say I'm keen to use solicitors as two sets in the past seemed to have stuffed it up (if its going to be wrong still I'd rather I'd not paid for the priviledge!)
The house shows no restriction so intimates it is held as joint tenants when it should have been tenants in common with a 60/40 split. The extra land DOES show a restriction so seems to be as tenants in common when that should have been joint tenants.

We neither have wills (although mine is now signed and about to be posted) so it would be a right royal pain if we didn't get it sorted and the proverbial bus got one of us!

Fingers crossed I've done it all right with very little expense. I will await a response from Land Registry with baited breath!