Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

DonSwan

I have read through this whole thread - over two days. Very interesting stuff. The thing that most concerns me is the 25 year lease. According to the British Gas scheme terms and conditions, you have to sign a lease giving your roof and the air space above it to BG (or whichever company) for the full 25 years, and if you sell the house any new owner will have to take this on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely this would prevent any new owner from having a loft conversion, or even installing Velux windows on the side of the roof carrying the PV panels. This might well lead to a prospective buyer pulling out. What would be the position if a buyer wanted to terminate the 25-year lease with the panel owners? Is there a buy-out clause in the contract, or would this have to go through the courts?

Cardew

DonSwan wrote: »

I have read through this whole thread - over two days. Very interesting stuff. The thing that most concerns me is the 25 year lease. According to the British Gas scheme terms and conditions, you have to sign a lease giving your roof and the air space above it to BG (or whichever company) for the full 25 years, and if you sell the house any new owner will have to take this on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely this would prevent any new owner from having a loft conversion, or even installing Velux windows on the side of the roof carrying the PV panels. This might well lead to a prospective buyer pulling out. What would be the position if a buyer wanted to terminate the 25-year lease with the panel owners? Is there a buy-out clause in the contract, or would this have to go through the courts?

I suspect any court would side with BG.

If you legally grant anyone an easement on your land or property you cannot unilaterally end that agreement nor can subsequent owners.

I would be pretty certain that PV panels would be the same as water mains, sewers, telephone masts etc.

Jon_Tiffany

DonSwan wrote: »

I have read through this whole thread - over two days. Very interesting stuff. The thing that most concerns me is the 25 year lease. According to the British Gas scheme terms and conditions, you have to sign a lease giving your roof and the air space above it to BG (or whichever company) for the full 25 years, and if you sell the house any new owner will have to take this on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely this would prevent any new owner from having a loft conversion, or even installing Velux windows on the side of the roof carrying the PV panels. This might well lead to a prospective buyer pulling out. What would be the position if a buyer wanted to terminate the 25-year lease with the panel owners? Is there a buy-out clause in the contract, or would this have to go through the courts?

One of the other companies offers a buyout - I cant remember if it was Homesun or Isis. Some sort of striaght line depreciation.

Doc_N

DonSwan wrote: »

I have read through this whole thread - over two days. Very interesting stuff. The thing that most concerns me is the 25 year lease. According to the British Gas scheme terms and conditions, you have to sign a lease giving your roof and the air space above it to BG (or whichever company) for the full 25 years, and if you sell the house any new owner will have to take this on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely this would prevent any new owner from having a loft conversion, or even installing Velux windows on the side of the roof carrying the PV panels. This might well lead to a prospective buyer pulling out. What would be the position if a buyer wanted to terminate the 25-year lease with the panel owners? Is there a buy-out clause in the contract, or would this have to go through the courts?

You sound a very valid warning to anybody likely to be selling their property - and that's probably most people.

The electricity savings are small. The lost roof conversion rights (and of course the right to put up your own panels) could be large.

That's quite possibly going to lead to a noticeable reduction in the value of the property - a lot larger, I think, than any electricity savings up to the point of sale.

Mcfi5dhc

DonSwan wrote: »

I have read through this whole thread - over two days. Very interesting stuff. The thing that most concerns me is the 25 year lease. According to the British Gas scheme terms and conditions, you have to sign a lease giving your roof and the air space above it to BG (or whichever company) for the full 25 years, and if you sell the house any new owner will have to take this on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely this would prevent any new owner from having a loft conversion, or even installing Velux windows on the side of the roof carrying the PV panels. This might well lead to a prospective buyer pulling out. What would be the position if a buyer wanted to terminate the 25-year lease with the panel owners? Is there a buy-out clause in the contract, or would this have to go through the courts?

You could get a number of different reactions, here is what I think you could get:

1. Brilliant! I want free leccy, I'll pay the asking price.
2. Brilliant! I want free leccy. But, I'll tell him that I don't like it, see if I can use it as a negiotiating tool.
3. Oh !!!!!! - I was going to put PV on myself, or loft conversion etc. Walks away
4. Oh !!!!!! - I was going to put PV on myself, or loft conversion etc. Tries to negotiate massive discount
5. Doesn't really care either way, just offers the price they think it reasonable for the house as it is.

But, most of those who do offer will be thinking, what will happen when I sell? Will the next person be option 1, or 4?

Me, I'd be an option 3, or an option 4 at a push.

Option 2 would be trouble, but it would happen. Just because someone is buying a £200,000 house (for example), doesn't mean they have £12,000 to spend on PV of their own.

Oh, you could also get "how much hot water do you get from them" - from experience, I get that all the time!

DonSwan

You must be able to buy the lease out, though, for a price, if you have a good lawyer. I imagine you'd have to compensate the panel owner for what they stood to earn over the 25 years of the lease. Say £1,000 a year for 25 years, equals £25,000. That is the amount my house value stands to be lowered by should I go for this deal.

Earlier in the thread the woman from ASG said they have signed up lots of OAPs, and made a joke about bungalow roofs. But I would be surprised if the firms who operate these schemes don't target OAPs anyway - after all OAPs are usually hard up, easy to dupe with figures, and they can't read the small print. The property for sale on the ASG website is an old person's bungalow by the look of it.

British Gas especially already have a reputation for targeting OAPs with boiler sales and other stuff - it would be natural for them to adopt the same MO with solar panels.

I reckon there's going to be a good few people who inherit their parents' homes as part of their estate and then find the value has had thousands knocked off it by the 25 year solar panel lease.

Mcfi5dhc

DonSwan wrote: »

You must be able to buy the lease out, though, for a price, if you have a good lawyer. I imagine you'd have to compensate the panel owner for what they stood to earn over the 25 years of the lease. Say £1,000 a year for 25 years, equals £25,000. That is the amount my house value stands to be lowered by should I go for this deal.

Earlier in the thread the woman from ASG said they have signed up lots of OAPs, and made a joke about bungalow roofs. But I would be surprised if the firms who operate these schemes don't target OAPs anyway - after all OAPs are usually hard up, easy to dupe with figures, and they can't read the small print. The property for sale on the ASG website is an old person's bungalow by the look of it.

British Gas especially already have a reputation for targeting OAPs with boiler sales and other stuff - it would be natural for them to adopt the same MO with solar panels.

I reckon there's going to be a good few people who inherit their parents' homes as part of their estate and then find the value has had thousands knocked off it by the 25 year solar panel lease.

It'll probably be more than a thousand pounds a year for one of the free ones.

Find out how many units they expect to generate a year and times that number by £0.428 (41.3p FIT plus 50% export @ 3p)

For example, if its generating 3,000 units a year, it would be in the region of £1,284 per year. So if you signed up and a month later wanted to cancel it, the minimum you could reasonably offer would be £31,200! Which they could decline. I doubt they would, but they could if they wanted to.

By the way, they don't need to target anyone - they are all getting far more enquiries than they could ever complete. They are just picking and choosing the best roofs (unshaded and in the right direction)

John_Pierpoint

"Opportunity cost" is the technical term that economists use.

K4blades

DonSwan wrote: »

Y

Earlier in the thread the woman from ASG said they have signed up lots of OAPs, and made a joke about bungalow roofs. But I would be surprised if the firms who operate these schemes don't target OAPs anyway - after all OAPs are usually hard up, easy to dupe with figures, and they can't read the small print. The property for sale on the ASG website is an old person's bungalow by the look of it.

Without wanting to cause anymore arguements, I have to say that is a very patronising view. In my experience, most OAPs have more common sense in their little fingers than much of the younger generation.
Many OAPs like the rent a roof schemes because, even if they do have money to invest, they don't want it to be tied up for many years. And if they haven't got the money to invest, they appreciate anything that might reduce their bills in some way.
I don't think Sarah was making a joke about bungalows, she was stating a fact, that bungalows, like for like, have a bigger footprint, (and therefore, roof), due to all the rooms being on 1 floor, not two. If you don't understand that, then its not the OAPs that are easy to dupe!

pauldreed

DonSwan wrote: »

Earlier in the thread the woman from ASG said they have signed up lots of OAPs, and made a joke about bungalow roofs. But I would be surprised if the firms who operate these schemes don't target OAPs anyway - after all OAPs are usually hard up, easy to dupe with figures, and they can't read the small print. The property for sale on the ASG website is an old person's bungalow by the look of it.

... Or is it the OAP's who target ASG??
after all, the older commmunity (like myself) are able to use the free leccy during the day (when the sun's shining), whilst younger families are at work...