Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

SarahLucyD

X-Ray Dave - we're hoping to have an application on our website that will enable each homeowner to click through to read their own meter - i.e. the cumulative produced. At the moment, however, it's not looking that simple. I'm no IT person so I can't say why but apparently it's not as easy as we thought it would be - will keep homeowners updated. In the meantime there are a couple of homeowners I email each Friday with their cumulative kwh readings. If you want me to email you, just drop me a line (but I can't do it for everyone otherwise I would soon be spending all day Friday emailing)

Competitionscafe - I think you will find that our MD said that the Scheme is open to everyone - i.e. the FIT Scheme, not our particular scheme.

Cardew - I know you consider the annual savings paltry but you are looking at it from your personal angle and perhaps your personal circumstances mean that such savings don't mean much to you, I won't say 'lucky you' because it is likely nothing to do with luck, more down to very hard work. However, for some people, especially in these northern parts, a saving is a very welcome saving and as electricity prices escalate the savings will be more. I know you will most definitely correct me if I am wrong but I'm sure I heard on Radio 4 a month or so ago that Ofgem said that electricity prices may increase by as much as 60% over the next ten years. I know of families in these parts who don't even have £10 spare at the end of the week, so any saving would be very welcome to them as it would add to their disposable income. Further, you will not be surprised to hear that the largest percent of our installations are actually on pensioners' properties (bungalows have large roof areas). We have also installed onto many homes of young families where the mother is at home all day. These households benefit enormously from solar PV, and the savings are extremely welcome - I know because I get emails from them. You have also pointed out on numerous occasions that 25 years is a huge committment. But what are they committing to? Free electricity! Mortgage companies consider that it enhances their security, otherwise they wouldn't agree to it.

Sarah D - A Shade Greener

Oopsadaisy

SarahLucyD wrote: »

X You have also pointed out on numerous occasions that 25 years is a huge committment. But what are they committing to? Free electricity!


Mortgage companies consider that it enhances their security, otherwise they wouldn't agree to it.

No, they are committing to wasting their money for 25 years.

Mortgage companies couldn't give a sh17 about solar panels, all they care about is 'In the short term, can you keep up repayments on the loan? In the long term, if we repossess your house will we get our money back?'.

If you're a pensioner you will typically have massive equity in your home, hence mortgage co's will fall over themselves to lend pensioners money for any hair-brained scheme that they are gullible enough to be bullied into purchasing, without giving it a second thought [or even as you imply a stamp of approval].

Solar is at the very least an exceedingly poor 'investment' choice [cf 6.35% on MSe's email from a week or so ago] and at it's worst it's a total scam bullying and preying on the vulnerable.

There, that's better!!

Mcfi5dhc

Oopsadaisy wrote: »

No, they are committing to wasting their money for 25 years.

Have you ever actually posted anything postive?

Or actually read any of the threads?

This thread is about a company that installs Solar PV for FREE onto peoples houses.

Yes there are considerations to be made (for example what happens if they move in the next few years), but the homeowner isn't going to be out of pocket because they don't have to spend a penny.

I wasn't bullied into buying solar, and I'm happy with my payback (would be even better if Chris Huhne could sort out increased payments for pioneers, but I hear he has been a little bit "busy" recently)

I would suggest, that going forward you READ posts before dissing them, and post under the appropriate thread (your post would have been more appropriate under the "Solar Power - always a scam" thread which you spammed the other day)

There, that's better....

SarahLucyD

McFi - I wonder if oopsadaisy is getting Solar PV mixed up with Solar Thermal? There's been a lot of bad press lately about Solar Thermal, whether it is justified or not I can't say because I don't know about that market, but just wondered if oopsadaisy has had dealings with a solar thermal company that has made him/her so bitter?

Mcfi5dhc

Sarah

One of the negative aspects of solar PV (and this isn't a knock at ASG) is that you get most of the power in the day, when you're not actually using much electricity

So, with the ASG setup, it would be much better to use more in the day and less at night. Which isn't really possible.

A device called EMMA (http://www.coolpower.ie/energycontrol/index.html) manages the excess power generated by solar PV and distributes it elsewhere. For example to batteries, hot water cylinder, possibly even H2 production sometime in the future.

Although not available in the UK yet, would you allow customers to fit this? It would not affect your revenue dramatically, because you would still get 41.3p for every unit generated. You would lose the 3p export, because virtually nothing would be exported. But the real benefit would be for the customers, whose bills would massively fall, possibly to zero.

(I have no connection to EMMA except I really really want one!)

SarahLucyD

Mcfi - I think people forget just how much electricity they use during the day - unless they have electric heating the only real difference at night are lights (in the winter)! Or, perhaps fan ovens. Remember, the fridge and freezer are on all day. All our homeowners who are out during the day are now using timer switches for tumble driers, washing machines, dishwashers etc and many people who are in during the day have started using immersion heaters rather than the gas central heating for their hot water - switching it on when it's a nice, bright day. It just amazes me why there is such negativity here when in Germany the PV market has gone through the roof. Are we that different?

If any of our homeowners wanted to fit that device they can do - why would we object? We don't get the export tariff anyway - as I explained earlier.

Sarah D - A Shade Greener

Mcfi5dhc

Thats good news. If EMMA ever takes off in the UK, I'm sure a few of your customers would go for it

Oopsadaisy

Sorry I didn't read all of the thread.

However i would assert that my general points still stand..

Solar is not a sensible investment

Most/many/a few solar co's are scammers who lie to sell over-priced tat to OAPs/vulnerable/gullible people

Mortgages - hah!!!

Mcfi5dhc

Oopsadaisy,

What does solar do? Produce electricity, or heat water?

Thanks

noncom_2

@Mcfi5dhc: the EMMA device looks interesting and I did a bit of research on it a few months ago. My conclusion was that it would never pay itself back at the projected retail price of around £1k (can't remember where I saw that figure, so it could be wrong).

Suppose I managed to use 100% of the electricity generated in the house this way, instead of 50% without it, then from a 3.7kW system, I'd "gain" about 1500kWh per year. So this would be used to heat my water tank for nothing, instead of my gas condensing boiler at a cost of less than 7p per kWh (depending on the tariff and whether it's Tier 1 or Tier 2 price).

Assuming that for purposes of water heating, 1kWh of electricity is equivalent to 1kWh of gas (which may not be the case, I don't know) then from that 7p per unit of gas, you have to subtract the 3p export tariff that you would lose by using the "free electricity" to heat your water instead of exporting.

So, (if the kWh equivalence is roughly true) the absolute maximum you could save by using the electricity via EMMA is 1500 units * 4p = £60 per year. Which is a nominal 6% return, but of course the cost of the EMMA itself will be written off gradually as it wears out and/or needs repair. Therefore, as a purely financial proposition for a small scale domestic installation, I can't see that it works. And since using the electricity on site instead of exporting it to the Grid doesn't really score as being "green" there's no ethical consideration to make it worth doing either.

Happy to have any element of these assumptions or calculations corrected, though.

@Oopsadaisy..... Solar Panels do not, of themselves, make a good financial investment. With the Feed In Tariff, Solar PV makes sense for those who can afford it, with certain caveats about the length of time you intend to remain in the house, future inflation, future changes to the tax status of the FITs, your attitude to those risks and the very long-term nature of the investment. Those arguments have been aired at length in other threads. There is also (for some people) the ethical argument that since reducing the nation's carbon emissions and reliance on fossil fuels is essential, then even if the Solar Panels don't represent the BEST financial investment available, it is still worth doing.

The case for Solar Water Heating will be altered with the Renewable Heat Incentive to come in next year. We will have to wait and see the figures to see how viable it is then.

Andy