Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

Rachelcc_2

It is very unlikely that this is the best deal for a householder wanting to benefit from the FITs. There's nothing illegal about what A Shade Greener are doing (though their communications team clearly need some training), but it isn't the best deal.


A Shade Greener will do all the fitting and will own the panels so there are no up front costs to the homeowner. The homeowner signs over his FIT rights to ASG. ASG have taken all the financial risk so far, and all investment has been done by them.

The homeowner, if at home during the day, can use the electricity generated by the panels, which will be free for them to use, therefore saving them about 12p per kWh on what they currently pay because they will currently be paying a utility.

If not at home much during the day, it won't make much difference to them, as they will be using most of their electricity at night, when the panels aren't functioning. (The electricity is not stored for them to use later, it is exported to the grid instantaneously, this is not ASG scamming them, that is how the FITs are designed to work).

In the meantime though, ASG are being paid £41.3p per kWh generated, regardless of whether the homeowner uses it (the generation tariff). They will then get another 3p per kWh for the export tariff for the stuff the homeowner doesn't use. If they have any sense, they will therefore be doing most marketing of their scheme in areas with high working population so as to maximise the number of people out of the house during the day.

Obviously, ASG will have taken the up-front risk and laid out the finance to pay for the panels, but at 6000 systems they will have some bulk-buy economies of scale. Once they have broken even on those costs (after 7-10 years), they will then be in a position where they have paid off their investment in the panel but continue to receive guaranteed FIT income till the end of the tariff period (25 years for Solar photovoltaics). This is money that otherwise would have gone to the householder, had the householder paid for his own panel and kept his FIT rights.

To really see the where the money comes in, bear in mind that over that 25 year period, the cost of 'dirty' grid electricity will inevitably go up, and the householder will continue to pay these increased bills while ASG continues to receive the 41.3p per kWh +3p per kWh INDEX LINKED!

In carbon saving terms, the whole equation is the same whoever owns the panel, but in money terms, the householder would be a lot better off installing and running the system themselves, if they can cover the up front installation costs - I remain amazed that we have not yet seen the 'Tesco Solar Panel Loan', but I'm sure it's on the way...

This is my understanding, happy to be corrected.

Rachel

Mcfi5dhc

Rachelcc wrote: »

It is very unlikely that this is the best deal for a householder wanting to benefit from the FITs. There's nothing illegal about what A Shade Greener are doing (though their communications team clearly need some training), but it isn't the best deal.

Surely this scheme is for those who haven't got £12,000 of their own to spend on PV? Your basically renting your roof out to them for 25 years, and getting money off your electric as the rent.

Rachelcc wrote: »

In the meantime though, ASG are being paid £41.3p per kWh generated, regardless of whether the homeowner uses it (the generation tariff). They will then get another 3p per kWh for the export tariff for the stuff the homeowner doesn't use. If they have any sense, they will therefore be doing most marketing of their scheme in areas with high working population so as to maximise the number of people out of the house during the day.

Why? The 3p export is peanuts, and ASG get 41.3p for every unit whether people use it or not regardless. ASG top priority must be finding roofs that are big enough and in the right direction.

Rachelcc wrote: »

In carbon saving terms, the whole equation is the same whoever owns the panel, but in money terms, the householder would be a lot better off installing and running the system themselves, if they can cover the up front installation costs - I remain amazed that we have not yet seen the 'Tesco Solar Panel Loan', but I'm sure it's on the way...

If the homeowner can afford it, then yes, they'll be far better off doing it themselves. If they can't afford it, and never expect to, then its a bit of a no brainer.

M

PS http://www.tescohomeefficiency.com/solar-electricity-price-examples/ (not quite labelled as solar panel loan, but you get extra clubcard points if you pay on your tesco credit card)

Cardew

Rachelcc

At "£41.3p per kWh generated" there would certainly be a lot of profit!!!!

I also think it is unfair to criticise ASG for their communications. After initial confusion on terminology in this thread, they(Sarah) have been remarkably clear and open and several people who have dealt with the company have been similarly impressed.

On another thread the pros and cons of PV installation for individuals(from a money saving aspect) are discussed. It is a matter of opinion if the individual will be 'a lot better off' and any calculations inevitably are based on assumptions - installations costs, interest rates, inflation rates, fuel increases, repair bills etc. Certainly it is a very long term proposition and many people are not prepared to wait 12, 15 or 20 years.

If it was such a sure fire winner for individuals, you might well ask why 'Tesco solar panel loans' or similar are not freely available.

SarahLucyD

RachelCC - oh YAWN YAWN YAWN - our communications are fine, thankyou, and the misunderstanding has been discussed to the point of vomiting I simply cannot believe you are dragging it up 8 months later. By the way - we aren't claiming the export tariff at 3p per kw hour. We have opted out and claim it instead as a straight 50% of what we generate x 3p per hour (which is one of the options under the FIT Scheme), we don't even fit an export meter so it matters NOT what the homeowners use.

As for the rest of your post - thanks McFi & Cardew - couldn't have put it better myself - ha ha!

Sarah D - ASGreener

noncom_2

As someone who has had absolutely no dealings with ASG whatsoever (and won't do in the future, as I am installing my own system, and also I don't think ASG cover my area) I don't think I could be accused of having an axe to grind.....

But that last post from SarahLucyD doesn't come across well. I realise it must be frustrating that people can come on internet forums and besmirch a company's reputation (and I have no idea what the dispute is about, nor do I care enough to go back and read any of it) but surely the customer relations face of a company has to maintain a certain level of professional courtesy. I personally would think long and hard about dealing with a company that answered customers that way in public.

Just my two penn'orth.

Rachelcc_2

Thank you for your response Sarah.

I made the post this morning because I was asked by a friend about your scheme which he thought was a scam - he had googled " A Shade Greener Scam", which brought him directly to his thread. He asked me why your company would be offering this service as he could not see the benefit of it to a commercial outfit. I had assured him that it was not illegal in an email.

After having explained it to him, he suggested that I post that email as a response on this thread, as he had read a great deal of communication on here and was still rather confused about the deal. I am afraid I did not have time to read all 12 pages of posts, and there's not much I can do about not having been asked the question 8 months ago!

You have, however, confirmed the point I made about the communications skills of the staff at A Shade Greener - while I appreciate that you may feel you have spent many frustrating hours defending the valour of your company on this thread, it is still not likely to endear you to future customers to publicly post such sharply worded, and rather infantile responses to reasonably worded additions to this thread.

SarahLucyD

Noncom you are absolutely right - it was entirely unprofessional of me and was a 'knee-jerk' reaction to RachelCC's post because I simply couldn't believe that it was all starting up again after it had been discussed to the point of nausea and I was actually very upset that it would all start over again. I am human and I didn't enjoy the time when I was cyber attacked and some of the posts were deleted by the moderators because they were aggressive and personal towards me. I am representing a company and am therefore fair game. But when it gets unfair??? I remained courteous to the point of nausea too - as you will note if you do actually go back through the posts. I simply didn't want it happening again when there was absolutely no need for it.

I apologise to RachelCC. I made an error in responding with haste.

Sarah - ASG

godsakes

Can't be bothered to read the whole thread... i got sick of all the stick Sarah was getting.

I used to think MSE was a pleasant group huggy forum for the financially [STRIKE]f**kless[/STRIKE] distressed, i see it's got some bloody bitter folk on it too.

For what it's worth i think the scheme is a great idea :T and opens up solar power as an option for peope who would never have considered it or be in a position to buy otherwise.

Is it playing the system? from a cynical perspective maybe but for once it's something that will benefit real people directly which is more than can be said for the billions we spend on the EU CAP.

Is the business model flakey? i don't know but so long as the customer is not liable who cares?

Rachelcc_2

Sarah, my goodness my post has clearly touched a nerve and upset you, which was not an intention at all. I've read it again and I think it is very reasonably worded and clearly states that ASG will take all the financial risk, therefore they stand to make the profit.

To assume that my post was in some way a personal attack on you is very oversensitive and perhaps symptomatic of your ongoing involvement in this not always civil debate.

This is actually the first time I have posted to a forum and I am rather surprised at the tone and lack of civility of the responses I saw. There appears to be a tendency to speak and behave in a way that one absolutely would not in a face to face conversation.

May I just stress that I meant no personal insult to you, or your company, in essence I was pointing out that those who can afford to pay up front for their own panels will stand to make far more income than those who sign up to your scheme. But therein lies the rub- many can't afford to, don't want the hassle, don't want a loan etc etc.

I can see clearly that this 8-month long conversation has been a source of some considerable stress to you - it's Friday afternoon, it's a sunny day, I'd hate to be the one to get your weekend off to a bad start. Apologies, enjoy your weekend .

joolsleeds

Pleased that calm has returned to the forum...... ;-)

I have had my system in for 2 weeks now, and am very pleased.

The fitting was straight forward (took less than 6 hours to fit) all the surveyers, electricians, roofers and scaffolders were very friendly, and willing to help. They left the house clean and tidy and explained how to restart the system in the event of needing to turn the electric mains off. Other than that, the system looks after itself.

I honestly don't have a bad word to say about their service. Sarah has always been very clear and honest in her dealings with me, and took immediate and decisive action on a minor issue I had.

I assume people have seen the ASG appearance on Working Lunch this Wednesday? (9th June) If not - have a look on the iPlayer. It explains their business model in a straight forward way, and about the funding model. <Please, lets no go there again on here!>

Regarding the comments on the thread about ASG looking for customers who would be out working most of the day, this is simply not the case - they never asked, and to be honest never seemed interested.

Finally - is it worth it? Well, it's cost me nothing, yet I save between 25%-70% on my electricity bill, depending on the weather and what we are using (these are my figures having logged on some meters I have).

So for me, the answer is yes! I would not have invested the £20k or so to do this, am doing something green, yet I now have free electricity from a system that has cost me nothing, and is fully guaranteed.