Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

Martyn1981

2010 wrote: »

So the householder gets £75 a year and the installer gets about £750 a year.
Hardly seems worth bothering for the property owner to have that eyesore stuck there for 25 years.

If this is all the payment they get (£75 a year) there must be some "smooth talking" going on!

Whilst those numbers aren't unreasonable, I think they need a little clarification.

Firstly the potential householder savings of £75 are really a minimum. Whilst the £750 is really a maximum and not really relevant to this situation*.

£75 saving will be almost unavoidable, and mostly achieved from baseload savings from an install of anywhere from 2kWp to 4kWp. Additional 'accidental' use will boost that figure higher, and actively trying to move consumption towards higher generation periods will boost it further. I don't think £120 pa is a particularly difficult target, though more can be saved through greater effort.

£750 income, would require a 4kWp install generating ~1,100kWh/kWp.

FiT is 14.9p/kWh and export is 4.64p/kWh at a deemed 50% of generation, so 2.32p/kWh generated. Total 17.22p.

£750/0.1722 = 4,355kWhs pa. Not impossible, but right at the upper limit for the UK, with all the oranges lining up.

A more reasonable figure would be 950kWh/kWp, giving a total income of 4*950*0.1722 = £654.

*Also remember that for organisations with more than 25 installs, they get the multi-installation rate for FiT which is 10% lower.

So the comparison is probably more like £110-£120 v's £450-£600 for a rent-a-roof (3kWp to 4kWp), and perhaps £100-£120 v's £300-£600 for a HA install (2kWp to 4kWp).

Though to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what relevance the income of the 'other party' has to do with it!

Regarding the visual impact - that is a matter for each individual, and if you (or anyone else) consider them an 'eyesore' then I doubt PV is worth considering.

Mart.

Martyn1981

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Though to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what relevance the income of the 'other party' has to do with it!

Scrap that! For a HA situation like splodger seedswapper it's probably irrelevant. But for an owned property (RaR situation) I suppose there is some relevance, as the property owner should first consider the 'lost' FiT + export income, before completely dismissing any possibility of having the system installed themselves at their expense and thus committing to a RaR install.

Mart.

John_Pierpoint

splodger_seedswapper wrote: »

re noise and housing of the units - i think they intend to put it next to the mains fuse box etc - which is in a very small cupboard / wardrobe in the bedroom - going by the picture posted above - looks like it needs a fair bit of space (the whole of the back wall in the wardrobe - which could result in me losing valuable storage space

All inverters give off some heat (The whole PV panel business has an efficiency of up to 20% if you specify the top of the range kit.OK some manufacturers are claiming they are on route to 30% but I will believe it when it happens in the domestic market.)

The particular model in my picture has aluminimum fins along the top to remove excess heat, a bit like a motor bike engine.

Its specification requires a clear space of 7 inches above it and 9 inches below it for air movement to circulate away the heat.
It would not appreciate being draped with coats.

Costing something approaching £1,000 it is the Achilles heal of the system and may have a mean time to failure of (say) 12 years.

splodger_seedswapper

thanks john

i will have no say on make / model etc - and if it's anything like everything else from my HA - it'll probably be cheap and nasty - certainly not top of the range.

i did try and call them today - no answer (or answerphone annoyingly) and the email addy they gave me was rejected - so can't at the minute get anymore info - but i will try and get some specs of some kind before any final decision is made.

this sort of input (from forum) is invaluable - so thanks again all :beer:

Martyn1981

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

The particular model in my picture has aluminimum fins along the top to remove excess heat, a bit like a motor bike engine.

Its specification requires a clear space of 7 inches above it and 9 inches below it for air movement to circulate away the heat.
It would not appreciate being draped with coats.

@ splodger seedswapper - just to repeat something I said yesterday, there may be the option to install the inverter outside. As an example, I'm not sure what the specific model is, in the photo John posted (possibly a 3.6kW) but it is suitable for outdoor installation.

But .... I suspect they may be a little reluctant to do this, possibly in case of damage/vandalism, and it would have to go onto a shaded wall, or be shaded to maximise its performance and lifespan.

Any chance that wardrobe/cupboard wall is north(ish) facing?

Mart.

splodger_seedswapper

hi martyn - one side of the cupboard is on a westerly external wall - that's where the electric meter and mains feed is
the mains feed and key meter is boxed outside - but there is no room in that box for anthing else - i guess they could fit a box below it - as long as it wasn't too deep, else it would block the path - i'm really at the mercy of the HA and their funding / budget etc


well a chap has just called to book a site survey (today 11.30) i just asked him about the controller - bulk of it should be able to go in the loft - then a smaller box fed down to the fuse board / mains

i did just ask him about wind noise going under/through panels - and he was being very cagey about it - i'll chat more with him later and let you know how i get on :cool:

Martyn1981

splodger_seedswapper wrote: »

hi martyn - one side of the cupboard is on a westerly external wall - that's where the electric meter and mains feed is
the mains feed and key meter is boxed outside - but there is no room in that box for anthing else - i guess they could fit a box below it - as long as it wasn't too deep, else it would block the path - i'm really at the mercy of the HA and their funding / budget etc

well a chap has just called to book a site survey (today 11.30) i just asked him about the controller - bulk of it should be able to go in the loft - then a smaller box fed down to the fuse board / mains

Hiya Splodger, this sounds like good news. Fitting the inverter in the loft will prevent any noise intrusion for you. It's a debatable issue, as a hot loft might shorten the life expectancy of the inverter, but since you won't be responsible for any maintenance costs, then if this happens (and all inverters will fail at some point, hopefully 10+ years) it's not your problem. You may lose some free leccy, but the HA (and their maintenance contract) will want to fix it asap to keep earning the FiT. Problem solved I think.

Fitting outside, I assume the meter box is accessible for reading, which would worry me about that location for the inverter, so, as you say, a box would be needed, but that would need ventilation ..... and I'm quickly moving into a silly solution, so probably not suitable for you.

splodger_seedswapper wrote: »

i did just ask him about wind noise going under/through panels - and he was being very cagey about it - i'll chat more with him later and let you know how i get on :cool:

Previously I said you were possibly over-reacting, and I was tempted to say that again here, however, you were very honest at the start saying you were almost OCD about background noise, so I appreciate that these issues are therefore very real and important to you.

I don't think there is any noise from the panels. I could say there is no noise, but you've got me thinking and you never know somebody may have noticed something. But the panels will be mounted about 50-100mm above the slates/tiles, and there are 20mm gaps between panels, so there shouldn't be any whistling as the total structure is relatively 'leaky' (not sure if that's the right word to use, but hopefully you'll know what I mean).

Panels are also surprisingly strong and firmly attached to the support rails, so don't wobble/flap etc in the wind.

Hope this gives you a little peace of mind.

Mart.

splodger_seedswapper

thanks martyn :T

although my place is in a real wind "tunnel" when it blows it really gusts - especially westerlys which whip through with menace - only real downside of living in a valley

but i think i maybe over-reacting / worrying over nothing - given the choice i would take extra wind noise in place of a ticking clock or a humming invertor

sods law says that they find the properties unsuitable now - after all my worrying - i'm feeling nervous now

zeupater

Hi

We're in a pretty exposed position and can say that we haven't noticed any more roof noise since the panels were installed than before ... different noise(s), yes, but more noise - probably not.

What you will notice is a reduction in noise when it's pouring down with rain ... there is a definate difference between the bedrooms under the panels and the others .. maybe this would be a positive factor.

HTH
Z

splodger_seedswapper

thanks for that z

well the chap was reluctant to do a full survey today - because of my doubts - but he was concerned (and certainly wouldn't deny) that there may be an element of additional noise to deal with.

there also a few shade issues that concerned him

re the spec of the panels and control unit etc - he said that the panels would be aleobosch S19 250w panels - he thinks i could have a max of 12. which could produce a max capacity of 3kw in optimum conditions

in the loft he says it would be a SMA invertor. in my cupboard a box similar size to fuse box

the system will operate with a remote sim - so HA will get all readings of power production etc remotely

he is going to speak to the co-ordinator to see if they can arrange a visit for me to a similar site - so that i can guage for myself what the noise implications might be - but as no site is going to be the same as mine, i doubt this will happen / be of any real benefit

so i haven't really got very far with this at all