Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

EricMears

DonSwan wrote: »

For what it's worth, here are the figures from the last filed ASG accounts in 2010:

Total Assets £2,297,000
Total Liabilities £3,020,000
Tangible net worth £ - 723,000
Current Assets £1,855,000
Current Liabilities £2,868,000
Working Capital £ - 1,013,000

I don't know whether that supports the idea of a company which has carried out 10,000 installations or not. Any accountants on here able to offer a view?

Not an accountant, but if their total assets are only £2.297m and they've really got 10,000 installations then they're valuing their average installation at £229.70p ! Obviously they need to depreciate their assets below cost price but that does seem a bit excessive. Anyone with their roof rented out who wants to buy out the lease would appear to be justified in offering £250:rotfl:

P.S. Of course those figs are two years old. No doubt most of their 'nearly 10,000 ' weren't included.

DonSwan

EricMears wrote: »

Not an accountant, but if their total assets are only £2.297m and they've really got 10,000 installations then they're valuing their average installation at £229.70p ! Obviously they need to depreciate their assets below cost price but that does seem a bit excessive. Anyone with their roof rented out who wants to buy out the lease would appear to be justified in offering £250:rotfl:

P.S. Of course those figs are two years old. No doubt most of their 'nearly 10,000 ' weren't included.

Thanks. And might the liabilities be money owed to their PV panel suppliers?

Stoop

They borrow from RBS and that is their main liability. Assets will be the panels I guess. Income goes to pay the loans first and then they make a profit from the install.

10,000 reached earlier this month and they had a free draw to celebrate it.

Typical cynical lot on here as usual!

For the record we got a completely free system last Sept and our electricity bills are lower by 40% on this time last year. That's with a very poor summer as well!

As for ever selling - I'm sure someone somewher will want some free electricity

Doc_N

Stoop wrote: »

As for ever selling - I'm sure someone somewher will want some free electricity

The problem is - they'll probably want a mortgage as well:

"Homebuyers are being refused mortgages due to 'free' solar panels"

http://www.rics.org/site/scripts/press_article.aspx?pressreleaseID=792

John_Pierpoint

I cannot see that this is any different from sharing your freehold rights with someone else, as is the case with nearly all flat owners and situations like sharing a driveway or having a right of way across the garden.

zeupater

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I cannot see that this is any different from sharing your freehold rights with someone else, as is the case with nearly all flat owners and situations like sharing a driveway or having a right of way across the garden.

Related to the above ... we looked at a millhouse a number of years ago ... almost perfect, on the edge of a village, really quiet and in quite substantial grounds .... the problem was that whilst we were being shown around walkers kept coming straight up the drive, straight past the kitchen window, between the house and the garage, down the garden, over the millpond dam, through a small orchard opened a gate, then continued down a bridleway .. leaving the gate open ..... of course we decided not to include the property on our shortlist ...

Z

John_Pierpoint

Would it have made any difference if each rambler had put £0.50 in the turnstile?
Probably not.:D

[Deleted User]

Doc_N wrote: »

The problem is - they'll probably want a mortgage as well:

"Homebuyers are being refused mortgages due to 'free' solar panels"

http://www.rics.org/site/scripts/press_article.aspx?pressreleaseID=792

This is correct.

From speaking to my surveyor recently... If you have rented out your roof for solar pv getting a mortgage/re-mortgage for a house will be near impossible. I don't want to name names but most big lenders will not touch you with a bargepole.

Total madness renting out your roof for such a small return especially as you may end up paying more for your mortgage.

Borrowing on top of your mortage for PV at low interst rates can make sense.

Additionally there is also no evidence yet that a house with 'bought' PV is worth anymore.

Hartismere

The politics and payments is beyond me, but I do know that rain does not clean glass. Despite only one person responding the the original post, it really is most important.
I cleaned windows with bucket and scrim for a good few years in my youth. Only our efforts kept the glass clean. New customers windows were usually truly filthy, and required much extra effort initially. As you wander the streets, look up at upper windows, you can tell those who don't employ a window cleaner, but do the downstairs themselves.
Rain deposits particles simply because it needs those particles to condense the vapour around, and even in quite heavy rain they will remain on the glass, often helped by the presence of sap, which itself really messes glass up, and is murder to remove. And then there is the bird poo, which sets like Araldite. I lived in Southern Spain for some years, and when it rained there, despite torrential downpours, which washed away houses and roads alarmingly often, when the sun came out again, cars were usually coated with a baked layer of mud, and the windows were opaque - so heaviness of rain guarantees nothing. Lots of carwashes in Southern Spain and making a fortune.
I once read an article about light loss on uncleaned windows, and the loss was staggering, and very fast, with high percentages of light level reduction. So unless the glass is cleaned, electricity output must fall, and so, savings, too, unless the energy being collected is unaffected by opacity of materials, and I'm missing the point.
The only solution is to use self-cleaning glass, that which bears a microscopically thin film of titanium dioxide, but I don't know if that can deal effectively with sap and bird poo.

The_Green_Hornet

Hartismere wrote: »

The politics and payments is beyond me, but I do know that rain does not clean glass. Despite only one person responding the the original post, it really is most important.
I cleaned windows with bucket and scrim for a good few years in my youth. Only our efforts kept the glass clean. New customers windows were usually truly filthy, and required much extra effort initially. As you wander the streets, look up at upper windows, you can tell those who don't employ a window cleaner, but do the downstairs themselves.
Rain deposits particles simply because it needs those particles to condense the vapour around, and even in quite heavy rain they will remain on the glass, often helped by the presence of sap, which itself really messes glass up, and is murder to remove. And then there is the bird poo, which sets like Araldite. I lived in Southern Spain for some years, and when it rained there, despite torrential downpours, which washed away houses and roads alarmingly often, when the sun came out again, cars were usually coated with a baked layer of mud, and the windows were opaque - so heaviness of rain guarantees nothing. Lots of carwashes in Southern Spain and making a fortune.
I once read an article about light loss on uncleaned windows, and the loss was staggering, and very fast, with high percentages of light level reduction. So unless the glass is cleaned, electricity output must fall, and so, savings, too, unless the energy being collected is unaffected by opacity of materials, and I'm missing the point.
The only solution is to use self-cleaning glass, that which bears a microscopically thin film of titanium dioxide, but I don't know if that can deal effectively with sap and bird poo.

Losses due to "dirty" panels are factored into solar generation estimations so unless you want to strive for an additional few kWh over and above what you would expect them to produce then there is really no need to clean them.