CSA Help

Zigs_2

:mad: Hi, Gawd I'm having a bad day, just typed out a new thread and it's disappeared into cyberspace, so I'll try again! CSA bled us dry when we 1st married due to hubby's unfaithful ex moving new man in, receiving house and car and all the rest of it and still pleading poverty, under CSA1 rules pre 2003. We finally got some relief if I can call it that when hubby went on short time and they left us alone with an £1800 debt which we fianally cleared earlier this year on a credit card - after years battling with doorstep loans and credit cards just to live.
Looking forward to better times and a better house (being in a terraced for the past 8 years with our 3 kids) we went up for sale, hubby back on full time and I returned to work recently. Wow, the end in sight we thought with debts etc. However no, despite the ex being substantially better of that us having benefitted with her new partner from the proceeds of her and my hubbys old house, the CSA looms once more. I feel ill, sick to the stomach and very powerless, the dreaded brown envelope came today, demanding proof of his and my income and mortgage payments (which are now very low because we discounted last year). So I calculate that they will demand at least £100 pw off us (which will send us under). I don't know whether to give up work, split so at least he gets reviewed under CSA2 rules?? or jump off a bridge. Any ideas anyone, what on earth is the best thing for us to do? we have until 23rd to return what they want. Will be ever so grateful for any advice

Zigs_2

Meant to add - we are not against supporting his other 2, we were paying about £85 pw at one time. Just seems so unfair when our kids here are in utter need of stuff and a much better off family are receiving what to the will be pin money. This is peoples' lives they're playing with. When I rang the CSA and suggested we would have to separate because we wouldn't be able to do this financially - she more or less sanctioned it - you could hear the nod of agreement! I am so mad, we have worked so hard for all we have and never done anything wrong :-(

kelloggs36

If you split, he will get switched to CS2 rules BUT the existing case will be subject to phasing, so you won't be any better off for a long while.

You can't just think of where the money is going, or of the fact that she is better off than you - you will just end up being bitter. You need to ensure that what is assessed is correct and whether you qualify for any departures etc. If you want, you can PM me and I will be able to give you some idea of what your assessment is likely to be?

LizzieS_2

The ex appears to have a better lifestyle, but that could be due to their income or they could be living it up on cards.

I'm struggling to understand how you can say your 3 children need things but at the same time you are wanting a higher mortgage - it doesn't make sense (could be way you have written it).

It appears you have paid off the debts including £1800 from earlier this year - that is a lot to clear in a short time. If you still have something on the cards, personally I would say to pay those off before moving - better for you in the long-term.

I cannot work out if you have actually moved already - if you haven't then you can always ask for a further assessment when your mortgage goes up.

Zigs_2

Thanks Kellogs, I will contact you, Lizzie - yes think it's the way I wrote it, I was hurrying after losing the last post! My kids aren't struggling now, but they did when we had to pay child Support before and I know we will again when this assessment happens.
Keeping it objective becomes very difficult, when as my hubby points out, this was her (the ex's) choice, she moved in her new man and took the house etc, maybe he got bad leagal advice, but he was told it would be best for him to go along with what she wanted at the time, (he was also trying to secure a parental responsibility order at the time) and that meant moving back to his parents and eventually signing over the property to her (about 35k's worth at the time). Of course as soon as the dust settled, her and new man sold up and went off to tour Aus before returning and going hell for leather for what they could get from us. It's a bit different to being desserted and struggling to keep kids fed. Are all abandoned men expected to not go on and have another family, or risk that 2nd family being discriminated against financially because of their 1st partner's infidelity?
We haven't cleared our cards, far from it, we were going to clear some of those when our house sold. As for moving we decided now was a good time because of the falling prices (more so it seems with second time homes) we were looking at increasing our mortgage by no more than £80 per week. As stated that option has gone, so that's another £500 down the pan used to pay for the HIP. Think that's the point of how all this makes you feel, pretty powerless. Having just gone back to work we were looking forward to being a bit better off and clearing our debts at a faster rate and being able to increase our mortgage, when in actual fact I'm sorry I went now, it's not going to benefit us but just another family - who living off cards or not, do not deserve to benefit from me killing myself! All in all, my working will mean hubby gets less allowed from his wage for housing - we're both professionals, but lower end pay scale and if they take £100 per week from us, we may as well claim income support. I wouldn't mind breaking my back to be in the house we like and having income support level wages to live off, after paying the mortgage, but having that choice taken away from us is a real kick in the teeth! There's no way we'll be allowed a higher mortgage now with CSA looming. As you say Lizzie, best thing we can do now is concentrate on paying our cards, but even that's gonna be difficult if CSA want their whack. I'm thinking this morning after a very sleepless night, that maybe its best if hubby cuts his hours and I increase mine, at least that way, our family get to benefit from our hard work.

kelloggs36

Don't panic! Your assessment won't be anything like £100 per week! It would go UP under CS2 - so don't do anything rash - I have seen the figures!

moneysavermum_2

I can understand you being bitter but this money is to up keep his children from a previous marriage. It doesnot matter that she had affairs etc etc this is about maintaining his kids. I know he now has children with you and that should be taken into consideration when the csa is calculated. You knew he had children previously and he will have to pay for them as well as yours. So it is best to pay the correct amount i think its 15% net wage for 1 and 20% for 2 or 25% for 3 children.

I would put forward your case in a logical manner without the bitterness to csa in writing.

Zigs_2

That's under the new calculations, and seems fair enough, we'd be a straightforward £45 Per week then, we would have never resented this figure, however we've been subject to double that in the past when we could least afford it, when we only had an income totalling £240 per week and our current children to keep.
Our problem is that we will be assessesd under the old rules because it started prior to 2003. We claim and have been awarded child tax credit - the governments answer to keeping our children out of poverty. The parent with care is also entitled to this, their assessment in working out what they need EXCLUDES any tax credits, however for us second families the tax credits are deemed to be income and are taken into account. That's where I have a problem, if that money is earmarked for my children's wellbeing, how can it ever be fair if it can be taken from them and given to others who are above the poverty line?
The system isn't fair in this respect and fails to safeguard our children. Yes we were aware of the need to maintain the first children, but this takes me back to 1 of my earlier questions - Does every man who has been dumped after fathering children then have to forego the right to live a happy family life with a faithful partner?
I have never expressed bitterness and got subjective with the CSA, my bitterness gets expressed out of sight and boils down to the fact the system is extremely unfair and even their own staff cannot offer a correct explanation as to how their figures are arrived at.
The new system works off the straight 15% for 1 child, 20% for 2 and 25% for 3 or more, this works out better for most and certainly for us who are not on brilliant incomes. Unfortunately some of us stuck on the old system (and we do not even have the right to be put on the new one), are expected to pay a damned site more. I don't know of any other government department where such unfairness exists, can you imagine if for instance Pensioners claiming pensions from before 2003 were on half of what todays claimants are entitled to? Oh and they were expected to stay on those figures, Grrhh .. . see why I'm angry? This draconian way of doing things has no place in today's so called fair society for all.

nje24 wrote: »

I can understand you being bitter but this money is to up keep his children from a previous marriage. It doesnot matter that she had affairs etc etc this is about maintaining his kids. I know he now has children with you and that should be taken into consideration when the csa is calculated. You knew he had children previously and he will have to pay for them as well as yours. So it is best to pay the correct amount i think its 15% net wage for 1 and 20% for 2 or 25% for 3 children.

I would put forward your case in a logical manner without the bitterness to csa in writing.

kelloggs36

In your case you would end up paying more under CS2 though - as your mortgage is totally ignored, and when you take off your mortgage from net income plus the personal and child allowances your assessment is very low.

Zigs_2

Has anyone got access to the old rules formula? I'd love to see it if they wouldn't mind posting it. Been told we'll be quite low but trouble is it was very high when our income was a lot lower than now. It would be helpful having some kind of idea before I send everything off seeing exactly how they get their figures. I don't understand how they decide what the 1st family needs and then how they decide what the 2nd family needs and arrive at a figure available for assessment!

borders_dude

Zigs wrote: »

:mad: Hi, Gawd I'm having a bad day, just typed out a new thread and it's disappeared into cyberspace, so I'll try again!

If your typing a big long post that is taking ages, you are best to do it on notepad or in a word doc then copy & paste it onto here, you wont loose anything then!