Advice re holidays and TOIL days

asset2004

I would be grateful for some advice re my work situation, been employed here for almost 10 years.


I have a demanding job with sole responsibility, therefore it is very difficult to actually take a week or two off for annual leave.

I last took two weeks of annual leave in 2007, when I returned I found an empty desk as my boss had had a tantrum, went through my emails deleting the lot, the entire inbox and sent box :mad: and also cleaned my entire desk by putting everything in the bin.
He would not speak to me afterwards about it, telling me that he was the boss and allowed to do whatever he wanted.

In 2008 I used days here and there and also braved a 1 week holiday and dreaded the mess I was coming back too.

This year I have 17 annual leave to take before the end of Dec 09. If I don't use them then I loose them and the company will not buy them back from me.
I wanted a week starting Tuesday to the following Monday. Despite giving three weeks notice I have been refused this and also told that I cannot take any single days.

However it depends if your face fits as there are other members of staff who are taking days off as and when they like, obviously mine doesn't.

Another problem is my boss's line manager - I received this meeting today:

'You are invited to a meeting on XX at XX to discuss XXX.'

That day didn't suit, I was tied my myself with a lot of work to do that day so I declined and suggested the day before instead. This is the reply I received:
'Anyway, the meeting stands and you are required to attend on Thursday as my calendar does not dictate from yours.'

So really this 'invitation' was nothing of the sort, it was a manadatory summons.
Do I reply and worsen the situation by suggesting that it's not an invitation or say nothing and fume until the meeting?

Sorry for the long winded question, I haven't even got to the TOIL days but will stop now.

Savvy_Sue

Do you have an HR department? I would be raising a grievance by now ...

onlyforboards_2

You have made the request for leave very late! Unless this is not your first request this year. Had you put in the request earlier and repeatedly had it turned down you may very well have been able to force the company to buy it from you.

I worked in a terribly managed office and carried all leave and toil (about 4 months all in!) for three years. Every time I had leave agreed it was then cancelled by my manager last minute. I had paper trails everywhere about it though which meant they had to let me carry it and paid for it when I left.

As for the meeting unless you have major priority work which is over and above your boss's line manager and needs completion during the meeting time then they are correct in stating you must attend.

Raise a formal paper query as to why your leave is being refused when other leave is still being granted. Push to get it carried over into the new year and a date when you can take it. Good luck!

Pete111

onlyforboards wrote: »

You have made the request for leave very late! Unless this is not your first request this year. Had you put in the request earlier and repeatedly had it turned down you may very well have been able to force the company to buy it from you.

I worked in a terribly managed office and carried all leave and toil (about 4 months all in!) for three years. Every time I had leave agreed it was then cancelled by my manager last minute. I had paper trails everywhere about it though which meant they had to let me carry it and paid for it when I left.

As for the meeting unless you have major priority work which is over and above your boss's line manager and needs completion during the meeting time then they are correct in stating you must attend.

Raise a formal paper query as to why your leave is being refused when other leave is still being granted. Push to get it carried over into the new year and a date when you can take it. Good luck!

Three weeks notice for a week off is just about OK IMO

Obviously they can say no but you do need to raise this whole leave situation with HR - I imagine you need a decent break by now!

+ Its too late now but I would have raised your bosses behaviour in 07 like a shot - awful and pretty pathetic - even my craziest Managers rarely exhibit such behaviour (and we have a few..)

Finally don't p*ss off your bosses re meetings. You should make every effort to attend the meeting as they are correct in their thinking here I'm afraid (though the response to another option was rather heavy handed)

P

bap98189

They are walking all over you and it sounds as though you have allowed them to do so for some time, which is why they now consider this to be the norm. Now is the time to start asserting yourself or else they will continue to treat you like cr!p. Frankly, I think you need a new job but in this climate that is likely not to be a quick solution.

Judging by the levels of incompetence, I'm guessing you work for a small firm which won't have an HR dept. I would put in a written request for all of the leave you are due this year on whatever dates you want to take it. There isn't long left until the end of the year so that shouldn't be difficult. When they refuse your request, write to them telling them you have X number of days remaining this year and request that they tell you which days will be acceptable for you to take your leave. Make sure you include a list of all the dates when you have been refused leave this year. Copy in everyone up the management all the way to the MD and see what the response is.

Anihilator

asset2004 wrote: »

I would be grateful for some advice re my work situation, been employed here for almost 10 years.


I have a demanding job with sole responsibility, therefore it is very difficult to actually take a week or two off for annual leave.

I last took two weeks of annual leave in 2007, when I returned I found an empty desk as my boss had had a tantrum, went through my emails deleting the lot, the entire inbox and sent box :mad: and also cleaned my entire desk by putting everything in the bin.
He would not speak to me afterwards about it, telling me that he was the boss and allowed to do whatever he wanted.

In 2008 I used days here and there and also braved a 1 week holiday and dreaded the mess I was coming back too.

This year I have 17 annual leave to take before the end of Dec 09. If I don't use them then I loose them and the company will not buy them back from me.
I wanted a week starting Tuesday to the following Monday. Despite giving three weeks notice I have been refused this and also told that I cannot take any single days.

However it depends if your face fits as there are other members of staff who are taking days off as and when they like, obviously mine doesn't.

Another problem is my boss's line manager - I received this meeting today:

'You are invited to a meeting on XX at XX to discuss XXX.'

That day didn't suit, I was tied my myself with a lot of work to do that day so I declined and suggested the day before instead. This is the reply I received:
'Anyway, the meeting stands and you are required to attend on Thursday as my calendar does not dictate from yours.'

So really this 'invitation' was nothing of the sort, it was a manadatory summons.
Do I reply and worsen the situation by suggesting that it's not an invitation or say nothing and fume until the meeting?

Sorry for the long winded question, I haven't even got to the TOIL days but will stop now.

Firstly as you state your job is a sole job with responsibility other peoples holidays are irrelevent and your post gives this indication. What matters to you is the policies and any holidays in by those who cover your absence - appears to be your manager whether you agree with his methods or not.

If they have repeatedly said no then you have a case for it to carry forward or be paid. If its a first off request they turned down then tough. You need to put in other requests and see what happens even if its so they so no and you cant lose the entitlement. If they dont want you taking single days then this can be fair depending on the circumstances.

Re the managers response. Sorry but whether I am busy or not when a superior requests you to attend you attend unless the other meeting is either extremely high value clients or someone more senior and you advise them this is why. You dont' say you have other plans and try and dictate their calender to them.

Sorry to be blunt but you just dont seem to be very up on how you play politics.

iamana1ias

Legally you have to have at least 28 days holiday per year (which can include Bank Holidays). If by denying your leave request you have taken less than this they are breaking the law and you can take them to tribunal.

Anihilator

iamana1ias wrote: »

Legally you have to have at least 28 days holiday per year (which can include Bank Holidays). If by denying your leave request you have taken less than this they are breaking the law and you can take them to tribunal.

Utter crap.

The company is allowed to decline this leave request. If they continually decline leave requests then this may become relevant however going in to november with over 3 weeks of holiday to take is taking the !!!! just a bit.

OP what holiday exactly have you requested in this year that has been declined.

iamana1ias

Anihilator wrote: »

Utter crap.

The company is allowed to decline this leave request. If they continually decline leave requests then this may become relevant however going in to november with over 3 weeks of holiday to take is taking the !!!! just a bit.

OP what holiday exactly have you requested in this year that has been declined.

:rolleyes:

I meant that if the company have refused all leave requests for an individual and/or they haven't taken the legally required amount of leave for the year at the end of it they will be in breach of employment law.

It should have read "leave requests" not "request".

PasturesNew

Put in separate requests randomly that overall add up to the dates you want off. First the monday, then the friday, next the tuesday, leave it a bit and just the wed-thu to finish.

OK, you'll probably get the sack ... but you'll have had the last laugh.

asset2004

Thanks everyone for their replies.
I've had a couple of days off this year already, last time was in August for 1 day.
I spoke to my boss tonight about what days I can take and why I wasn't permitted this week. I'd also asked for either 1 or 2 days off every week to the end of the year.
I was told that I can't have a single day off, it must be a week. So I said well that's fine but you've just told me I can't have a week. He's a pretty poor boss as he couldn't discuss my questions, give me answers and his replies were I'm the boss and I've final say over when you can take any holidays.
I said by taking Tues-Mon meant my work was covered both weeks but he wasn't willing to listen.
I agree that I've been walked over but don't know how to go about getting control back.
No we are a pretty big company with a HR dept. Re what happened in 2007 I did debate going to HR but sometimes I do like my job and I felt that by going to HR they would put the squeeze on me to resign.
They are bullies and I've seen it happen before.