London & Country – A word of warning

payless

although theres 2 flaws

1. The Term Whole of Market appears to mean something different to what "Joe Public"( aka Lowis) would expect it to mean. The rules are there for consumer protection and clarity !!!

2. Some firms going one further and claim to use "all lenders " - perhaps going one further by saying "we will recommend a product, even if we don't get paid" when they don't.

( not trying to have a go at one particular broker here)

QuidProQuo

I have used London & Country twice in the last 2 years as recommended in Martins mortgage guide for free whole of market advice.

When the end of my mortgage penalty period is around 6 months away I generally keep an eye on mortgage deals by checking various online best buy tables etc. So before I approach London & Country I usually have a pretty good idea of the best rates available.

My most recent contact with them did not turn out as expected so here is the story:

In 2004 I was after a 2 year fixed rate or discounted rate and rang L & C. I confirmed that the best deals I had found were both with Alliance & Leicester 4.69% fixed or 2% discounted variable. They completed a search of the market and contacted me to confirm that they could not find a better deal and that it was my best option to go directly with A & L.

….Great, honest answer, I went with A & L.

This year same scenario except I’m looking for 5 year fix, I took out the A & L mortgage on 4 Aug 2004 so assumed that penalties would not apply after approx 4 Aug this year. I wanted £158K mortgage no redemption penalties beyond fixed period and facilities for overpayments.
Spoke to L & C in early May and confirmed the best deal I could find was to stay with A & L on a rate of 4.84% and fee of £499 and that if I moved away I would need to pay a £295 admin fee. They rang back and offered me 4.79% with Chelt & Gloucester plus a fee of £699 (free val & legal) saying it would be cheaper than A & L. After putting the figures through my own spreadsheet it worked out that over 5 years it would actually be cheaper to stay with A & L by £250 (and much easier).
As it turns out after ringing A & L they confirmed I am actually tied in until 1st September this year and neither of the mortgages could be reserved that long. This meant I would need to wait until June before checking the market again.

Rang L & C on 1st June and asked them to search again, all the previous products had now changed to higher rates and so mentioned that the best deal I could find was Direct Line at 4.89% for 5 years with free legal and valuation plus £499 arrangement fee. Knowing that L & C can’t search HSBC and Yorkshire I asked pointedly if Direct Line was a company they searched, they replied ‘we search the whole of market’. They rang back with 4.99% going with First Active with £399 fee and free val & legal?? Bemused I asked if they had searched Direct Line, they said yes and that Direct Line were only offering 4.99% (the same as First Active). Also they continued by saying Direct Line don’t operate through brokers (a question that I had already asked) and have a poor customer service record whereas First Active Mortgages were provided by the trusted Royal Bank of Scotland.

Anyway the same evening I checked with Direct Line and the 4.89% was still available as it is today and their mortgages are also provided by The Royal Bank of Scotland. I have now applied and the product is reserved. This works out around £500 cheaper than First Active over the 5 years.

You can draw your own conclusions from the above.

I also found them trying the hard sell on life and critical illness cover on both occasions and the figures they were quoting were almost double that available from Cavendish Online.

stanmoresaver

QuidProQuo wrote:

as recommended in Martins mortgage guide for free whole of market advice.

When the end of my mortgage penalty period is around 6 months away I generally keep an eye on mortgage deals by checking various online best buy tables etc. So before I approach London & Country I usually have a pretty good idea of the best rates available.

My most recent contact with them did not turn out as expected so here is the story:

In 2004 I was after a 2 year fixed rate or discounted rate and rang L & C. I confirmed that the best deals I had found were both with Alliance & Leicester 4.69% fixed or 2% discounted variable. They completed a search of the market and contacted me to confirm that they could not find a better deal and that it was my best option to go directly with A & L.

….Great, honest answer, I went with A & L.

This year same scenario except I’m looking for 5 year fix, I took out the A & L mortgage on 4 Aug 2004 so assumed that penalties would not apply after approx 4 Aug this year. I wanted £158K mortgage no redemption penalties beyond fixed period and facilities for overpayments.
Spoke to L & C in early May and confirmed the best deal I could find was to stay with A & L on a rate of 4.84% and fee of £499 and that if I moved away I would need to pay a £295 admin fee. They rang back and offered me 4.79% with Chelt & Gloucester plus a fee of £699 (free val & legal) saying it would be cheaper than A & L. After putting the figures through my own spreadsheet it worked out that over 5 years it would actually be cheaper to stay with A & L by £250 (and much easier).
As it turns out after ringing A & L they confirmed I am actually tied in until 1st September this year and neither of the mortgages could be reserved that long. This meant I would need to wait until June before checking the market again.

Rang L & C on 1st June and asked them to search again, all the previous products had now changed to higher rates and so mentioned that the best deal I could find was Direct Line at 4.89% for 5 years with free legal and valuation plus £499 arrangement fee. Knowing that L & C can’t search HSBC and Yorkshire I asked pointedly if Direct Line was a company they searched, they replied ‘we search the whole of market’. They rang back with 4.99% going with First Active with £399 fee and free val & legal?? Bemused I asked if they had searched Direct Line, they said yes and that Direct Line were only offering 4.99% (the same as First Active). Also they continued by saying Direct Line don’t operate through brokers (a question that I had already asked) and have a poor customer service record whereas First Active Mortgages were provided by the trusted Royal Bank of Scotland.

Anyway the same evening I checked with Direct Line and the 4.89% was still available as it is today and their mortgages are also provided by The Royal Bank of Scotland. I have now applied and the product is reserved. This works out around £500 cheaper than First Active over the 5 years.

You can draw your own conclusions from the above.

I also found them trying the hard sell on life and critical illness cover on both occasions and the figures they were quoting were almost double that available from Cavendish Online.

Then the simple answer is to write directly to L&C and ask them to explain their advice and recommendations- it would be interesting to be kept informed of their reply.

BTW- your last paragraph is farely obvious- think about it- They offer to do your mortgage for free- so then they try to sell you ancillory products to increase their revenue- no great difference shall we say to the garage that offers a free brake check so that they can get the work that needs to be done by just happening to be there. But again- if the premiums were "double" I would be asking them to explain.

Good luck.

SS

Arch-Angel

payless wrote:

1. The Term Whole of Market appears to mean something different to what "Joe Public"( aka Lowis) would expect it to mean. The rules are there for consumer protection and clarity !!!

That's the problem isn't it? Joe Public interprets the phrase "Whole of Market" - when it comes to mortgages - as "this broker will look at every possible mortgage deal out there (8500?)", hopefully picking out the best deal for their customer. (I say "hopefully" to avoid making any assumptions - there are always bad apples!)

But as an aside, what about the brokers that regularly comment in these forums? Have people used them as their broker? What service did they get? Would they use them again?

These fine people give up their valuable time to answer our questions (big thanks to MortgageMamma who's answered some of my silly questions :T ) - whilst it goes against the spirit of the forum rules, shouldn't they benefit by receiving increased business? I'm not talking about advertising - maybe a forum recommending (or otherwise!!) some of the brokers that post on here?

Just a thought

MortgageMamma

Hi There Arch Angel

Thanks for the compliment and your questions arn't silly!! I hope I've provided some clarification on them. In answer to your last post, all the broker who post on here (most of us are good friends) get private mortgage enquiries regularly from the site, some go through and place business but most just want free advice! Which is fine, as thats the whole point of the forum, however, it is always a nice feeling when you help an MSE'r and place their mortgage. I must point out though before I get my head jumped on that that is not the reason why we help out/post on here, its just a good bit of release at the end of a hectic day. my partner calls it "charity work" !!!

QuidProQuo

stanmoresaver wrote:

BTW- your last paragraph is farely obvious

It's obvious to you, it's obvious to me but it's not obvious to many people who are maybe just starting to take a serious look at their finances and have never heard of Cavendish Online. You can use the same analogy with garages or whatever but it happens and people get ripped off.

Anyone who hasn't heard of Cavendish Online (you will find the relevant information on MSE here) they refund ALL the commission, just pay a one off commission fee of £35 at time of application. :cool:

dunstonh

Anyone who hasn't heard of Cavendish Online (you will find the relevant information on MSE here) they refund ALL the commission, just pay a one off commission fee of £35 at time of application. :cool:

Whilst you promote them, it is worth noting that you are doing it on execution only basis and that remove your right to complain if you get it wrong. You will find many IFAs/protection advisers out there that can be not far off Cavendish's price as Cavendish don't appear to get best rates from the providers (I have done some nil commission quotes to compare against them and come out cheaper). Often the cost difference is less than a pound a month and having a local adviser who will home visit, sort the paperwork, make sure the right company is used, the right trust documents and make sure the right type of term assurance is used is worth that extra cost. Especially in the event of a claim. Home visits with someone sorting the paperwork out when spouse has died is worth that extra cost alone to many.

I would suggest that if the L&C quotes were double, then you were not comparing like for like. I wouldnt be surprised if the difference was reviewable or currentcosted quotes vs guaranteed or with certain addons not included.

stanmoresaver

QuidProQuo wrote:

It's obvious to you, it's obvious to me but it's not obvious to many people who are maybe just starting to take a serious look at their finances and have never heard of Cavendish Online. You can use the same analogy with garages or whatever but it happens and people get ripped off.

Anyone who hasn't heard of Cavendish Online (you will find the relevant information on MSE here) they refund ALL the commission, just pay a one off commission fee of £35 at time of application. :cool:

I agree with what you say- however- as my signature strip says- one can never underestimate the benefit of taking advice (and you will not get any advice from cavendish!)- I am certainly not saying that everyone will get it wrong but in the past two months these two examples of people predjucing there families security have been put in front of me when the (now clients) have been recommended to me for advice.

1/ The (professional- both company directors) couple with twins who had saved money by cancelling their critical illness plans for a plan with terminal illness benefit because they thought it was the same. Bought without advice!

2 The young couple (hairdressers) with a 3 month old baby who saved money by stopping their L&G plan mortgage protection (20 year term) and applying directly back to L&G and "saved money" by taking a 5 year term plan.

If you want to go direct and buy your insurance without advice- be aware- be very aware! Both of the above set of (now) clients apprecciate the benefit of advice and the fact that i took commission (which i will cover (ie repay) if they stop paying the premiums) for the next 4 years) to pay for my time was far more acceptable to both of them than directly paying me a fee to do the work for them.

Sorry QPQ- don't want to "bang" on about a tangent to your OP- this however is my "soapbox" subject.

Keep us posted about the L&C progress

SS

HelpWhereIcan

Did not expect the 'discussion' to go down the road it obviously has done.

@ QuidProQuo

I agree that it seems a little strange that L&C would be as evasive as they seem to have been about their ability to place a mortgage with Direct Line. IMO, it is always better to be honest about these things as you will always get caught out (what did they plan to do if you went back and said - "ok then, I appreciate your advice, but put my application in with Direct Line" )

The thing I was trying to get at was if you had made the calculations you obviously have done and compared, features, criteria and service on a like for like basis.

As far as insurances and protection go, I agree with Dunstonh et al who have made the case for advice (well I would), but would also add that the FSA insist that we (advisers) are able to evidence that we have discussed the protection of your mortgage with you when giving advice. This should never come across as the 'hard sell', but I am sure it can.

Thanks for posting your story

QuidProQuo

I seem to have opened a can of worms here

I'm sure you all have everyones best interest a heart

I hope this helps someone :cool: