Unenforceability & Template Letters II

bankkiller

ok guys, can anybody help

After I responded to Lloyds TSB telling them that the CCA they sent me did not meet the terms.

They sent me a "final response" letter saying that because I had been paying monthly previously, that I am acknowledging the debt, and that they have provided me the copy of the CCA which I asked for.

What to do now?
I already stopped paying

is it just wait and see what they do?
Are they just going to sell on my debt to the DCA?

heres the letter!

never-in-doubt

cejsmith wrote: »

I found this and thought people here might be interested.

Mate this is what we reported a while ago - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=27475075&postcount=505

never-in-doubt

cejsmith wrote: »

I made a SAR on Barclaycard a few weeks ago, I finally got something in the post on 2 of the cards, but it was only about 5 years statements. Do you think thats all they are going to send me ( one of the cards has been going 26 years!!!). What should I do next???

If they have only sent you 5 years then you complain to the ICO and they will tell them to comply, usually you'll get a duplicate with everything included. However it may be easier to ring the person that sent the SAR asking why it only dates back 5 years - see what they say to you.

never-in-doubt

leemuddywaters wrote: »

Cheers NID, when a CCJ is issued is it just basically a letter with a court date, or are there warning letters prior to this?

See here mate: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/CourtClaimsAndBankruptcy/DG_10013083

The court will send you a 'Claim Form', showing how much the creditor says you owe them, and the details of the claim (though these details can be sent separately up to 14 days later). This form gives you the opportunity to explain your situation to the court.

Replying to a Claim Form
You'll receive an Admission Form with the Claim Form, asking you about your income and outgoings. On the form you can make an offer to repay the debt (or a lower amount if you think you owe less than the creditor claims). If you don't make an offer and the court decides against you, it may say you must pay either the full amount or monthly payments. You have 16 days from the date of the postmark to send the form back to the court. Or you can submit an 'Acknowledgement of Service' or a 'Defence Form', depending on how you want to proceed - follow the link below to find out more about these forms.

never-in-doubt

Hobbit wrote: »

Frederickson (Egg) - keep referring me back to Egg - sent a 'passing the buck' request over a month ago and heard nothing.

Then simply ignore them until they do respond to you - obviously you should cease payments (assuming you already have?)

Hobbit wrote: »

AIC (Amex) - sent 1 sided photocopy of '60 second application form' signed by me back in 2004, but with no signature from them, no credit amount, no t&cs, no repayment structure etc.

Send this: 3. CCA Query

Hobbit wrote: »

Moorcroft (B'card) - received 'intended litigation' letter threatening attachment of earnings, bailiffs, charging order etc after Bcard sent 3 page letter outlining why I should accept their blank Barclaycard Conditions they sent in response to CCA request which has my name and address added to top of form but no mention of my alleged account, amounts etc. They say debt is legally due and payable, not in dispute therefore sent on to Moorcroft.

Hmmm, not quite sure about this one - if it were me, i'd say bring it on and i'd let them take me to court - however as it is not me i'd be prone to say respond. Can you start a new post (in this thread) actually going into detail with this and tell me what you've done to date and what they have sent back (ideally post their letter - omitting personal details).....

Hobbit wrote: »

Calder (Skycard) - taken over from Mercers - not heard from anyone!

Then simply ignore them until they do respond to you - obviously you should cease payments (assuming you already have?)

Hobbit wrote: »

Debitas (Cap1) - never replied but Cap1 sent letter with name and address on, current t&cs on back and 'copy of your agreement' form with no personal details.

Send this: 3. CCA Query

Hobbit wrote: »

Experto (MBNA) - sent blank copy of agreement with name/address typed on and card no. handwritten across top, with computer generated tick in box to establish and verify authenticity and integrity of non-existent signature.

Did you apply online, is this why there is a tick in box? If you never then send this: 3. CCA Query

Hobbit wrote: »

Redcats (La Redoute) - have admitted they have no signed agreement and have not even bothered to send a blank, but say that this doesn't matter and they are going to register a default with CRAs and pass over to DCAs.

You should ignore them - the debt is unenforceable and they cannot do anything (other than default you).

never-in-doubt

bankkiller wrote: »

ok guys, can anybody help

After I responded to Lloyds TSB telling them that the CCA they sent me did not meet the terms.

They sent me a "final response" letter saying that because I had been paying monthly previously, that I am acknowledging the debt, and that they have provided me the copy of the CCA which I asked for.

What to do now?
I already stopped paying

is it just wait and see what they do?
Are they just going to sell on my debt to the DCA?

heres the letter!

Thats the 7th time i've seen that letter now - from 7 different people (it is a cut/paste job). Have they already defaulted you?

The fact you paid in the past means nothing, that does not stand up in court - see my signature for what makes an account unenforceable!

If they have already defaulted you and you've stopped paying, let them sell it to a DCA or whatever - so long as you know the risks (i.e. you will get defaulted etc)

I don't remember your history....:D

bankkiller

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Thats the 7th time i've seen that letter now - from 7 different people (it is a cut/paste job). Have they already defaulted you?

The fact you paid in the past means nothing, that does not stand up in court - see my signature for what makes an account unenforceable!

If they have already defaulted you and you've stopped paying, let them sell it to a DCA or whatever - so long as you know the risks (i.e. you will get defaulted etc)

I don't remember your history....:D

i will check my credit history again and find out whats happening.
I don't think they will have defaulted me yet, as I only got the letter this week.

Since I stopped paying them, how long do usually take to sell off to the DCA?
Also, if I want to fight this default, whats the best way to do it?

Surely if they don't have the original CCA, then they can't put a default against me.
They are the ones who have failed to provide the agreement so they are the ones in the wrong!

never-in-doubt

bankkiller wrote: »

i will check my credit history again and find out whats happening.
I don't think they will have defaulted me yet, as I only got the letter this week.

Since I stopped paying them, how long do usually take to sell off to the DCA?
Also, if I want to fight this default, whats the best way to do it?

Surely if they don't have the original CCA, then they can't put a default against me.
They are the ones who have failed to provide the agreement so they are the ones in the wrong!

Sorry, you misunderstand - your history, i.e. what has happened so far! When did you last pay, is this the only account you're CCAing etc etc - I can't remember your background lol.... so hard to advise what is best without it

Yes they can default you - that is the only downside to this, I don't agree with it but sorry - its the way it is. My interpretation is no agreement means no authority to share my data, but because technically we did take the account, it is only right for the lender to report its conduct to the CRA's.

The resulting 12 test cases judgement will put paid to this once and for all. Basically, when did you last pay and were you in arrears or what? I can't fathom why you stopped paying if they had not defaulted you - this is not a wise decision..... you only stop paying really when you have nothing to lose.

Allan87

I don’t really understand this unenforceability through not having a signature, wouldn't that mean electronic ones are unenforceable?

never-in-doubt

Allan87 wrote: »

I don’t really understand this unenforceability through not having a signature, wouldn't that mean electronic ones are unenforceable?

No. The electronic ones have a tick in the box. Also, lack of signature itself does not make it unenforceable - different if the form wasn't signed at all - by anyone, then you can argue it, but if they sent a 'true copy' there would be no sigs so its a hard one to call.