Unenforceability & Template Letters II

coffeedog

Hi NID and all,

Have had a letter back from one of my creditors after requesting a CCA in mid-Nov. It's taken them a while to get back to me, but basically, they have misfiled my CCA and can't locate it :j

I owe about £9500 on the loan and can't believe my luck, things like this just do not happen to me!

They gave me a statement of financial information on the letter showing

when the balance was 1st drawn,
the total loan amount,
the monthly payment and
when the agreement ends.

They also did the blarb about reporting to CRA and "notwithstanding this the loan remains valid and we expect you to continue to meet your obligations under the agreement"

I would really appreciate some advice on what to do next and what letter to send. It's actually really scary.

I'll have to hold off sending a letter for a bit as I bank with the loan company and will need to arrange moving to a new bank account I opened just in case this happened. I'll need to change D debits and my salary as I assume that the bank will just continue to take payments direct if i do not move. This may take some time with xmas and bnew year round the corner. I also have overdrafts with the bank totaling £1500, which i can pay off bit by bit with the money i'll be saving from making the loan payments.

I guess i will also need to apply for any credit i may need now as my credit record will be messed up? Interestingly, this loan has never recorded on my credit record anyway!

I also await another CCA for a loan with this bank and hope the length of time means they can't find that one too.

I would really appreciate any help as although its great , I'm a bit scared too .

PS sorry for the essa :rolleyes:y

never-in-doubt

leemuddywaters wrote: »

No! Im a bit concerned that they haven't replied to my settlement offer though, when a CCJ is issued is it automatic or do they usually give warning?

They send you court papers mate - its official and you'll know about it! But don't worry, if they have not replied to your offer send it again with a copy of the last one mate.....

never-in-doubt

Flower567 wrote: »

As you are aware, I have sent the first letter requesting a copy of the CCA (for Halifax credit card) however we have not received a response to this (other than the letter stating that they have reduced the credit limit!). I sent the second letter yesterday but I have just sent this via first class post so am going to send this again today via recorded mail.

Ok, nice one - you need to send things recorded as it gives 'proof of sending'....

Flower567 wrote: »

However, reading the advice on here this is when we stop paying. What I cant understand is – fair enough we stop paying and my Mum will then get defaults on her account.

Exactly, but if she can't pay and already has defaults etc then this will not affect her - just cease repayments asap.

Flower567 wrote: »

However, if Halifax are unable to provide a copy of the CCA then can they still chase you for the debt.

No. However the recent McGuffick v RBS case changes things somewhat. The judgement in that case was that they could commence pursuing the debt - however this was limited to adding a default and writing out. That's the worse they can do to be fair. However we should have clarity on this after the test cases in january.


Don't worry too much about this, they cannot do much at all.

Flower567 wrote: »

My Mum is worried that should we stop paying (and even though we havent got a copy of the CCA) that she will have debt collectors and things coming round to the house. I really don’t want to put her through anymore stress so if this is the case then it may be better for us to stop now!

If any DCA come-a-knocking you never open the door to them and ensure all doors/windows are locked. They cannot break in but they can gain peaceful entry (through an open door etc).....


See here for full laws on DCA's etc: Dealing with Bailiffs Harassment

Flower567 wrote: »

Further, I am presuming that Halifax would not be able to pursue her through the Courts for this and therefore obtain a CCJ but would that mean for the next 6 years should would constantly be getting defaults on her account.

This doesn't make sense. Basically, if your mum stops paying then HBOS will default her - that's it. Then 6 years from the date of default or date of last payment the default will be gone - this will be the same with all the accounts/defaults etc.

A lender can only add a default once - think of it like one debt, one default. The same applies with a CCJ.

The worse case scenario is that they default you then 5 years later they CCJ you which means that in essnce you'd have it there for 11 years but don't worry, its unlikely they will do this.

Once we confirm unenforceability they cannot send debt collectors to your house - but again we'll know more in January after the test case judgement.

Hope that helps - stop stressing out

never-in-doubt

critty wrote: »

Hi it's me again. I am here to cause you more bother

I just looked at my experian report again and noticed a start date on the default. It was just a quick query as to if this is the start date of the original credit agreement with 3 or the date at which it supposedly, because I don't acknowledge this debt in no way shape or form, bought by hfo/roxburghe ?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4188060330_12703b1037_o.png

The default will be removed on 21 Feb next year mate (i.e. 8 weeks or so)..... do nothing - just let it drop off!

If for any reason on this date the default is still there you contact the CRA and tell them to remove it as the 6 years have passed.

Sorted

never-in-doubt

coffeedog wrote: »

Hi NID and all,

Have had a letter back from one of my creditors after requesting a CCA in mid-Nov. It's taken them a while to get back to me, but basically, they have misfiled my CCA and can't locate it :j

I owe about £9500 on the loan and can't believe my luck, things like this just do not happen to me!

They also did the blarb about reporting to CRA and "notwithstanding this the loan remains valid and we expect you to continue to meet your obligations under the agreement"

I would really appreciate some advice on what to do next and what letter to send. It's actually really scary.

I'll have to hold off sending a letter for a bit as I bank with the loan company and will need to arrange moving to a new bank account I opened just in case this happened. I'll need to change D debits and my salary as I assume that the bank will just continue to take payments direct if i do not move. This may take some time with xmas and bnew year round the corner. I also have overdrafts with the bank totaling £1500, which i can pay off bit by bit with the money i'll be saving from making the loan payments.

I guess i will also need to apply for any credit i may need now as my credit record will be messed up? Interestingly, this loan has never recorded on my credit record anyway!

I also await another CCA for a loan with this bank and hope the length of time means they can't find that one too.

I would really appreciate any help as although its great , I'm a bit scared too .

PS sorry for the essa :rolleyes:y

LOL

Right, so in a nutshell you've sent a CCA and they cannot find it (is it RBS/Natwest by any chance? - Looks like their way of wording a letter!)

You need to get out of that bank asap - change sooner than later - as you've now CCA'd them, they may think you won't pay and will take funds from your bank account. Why have you continued to bank with them and request CCA - the first thing I always say is get a new account?

This may be a mistake - only time will tell but change banks like yesterday! Also, if you need any credit get it now cos if you decide not to pay (your legal right) then they will default you.

You need to make the call here - then post back. Do not write back to them though. Out of interest, are you up to date with the loan? If so, why are you doing CCA?

Your post has confused me big time cos you're going about things the wrong way and i'm not used to it.....

coffeedog

Thanks for your quick reply NID.

I guess I thought they would be able to find the CCA and it would be valid, so didn't change accounts. I just wasn't hopeful it would work out!

I'm actually arranging changing stuff over as we speak, so long as i can get my salary paid into my new account in jan, i should be able to do it. next payment is due in 2nd week of jan.

I'm not behind with my loan but don't want to continue to pay it if it's not enforceable as i'm struggling.

Sorry i did it the wrong way round, i guess i've just been a bit of a wuss about it all. My new bank account is with a&l and I was worried about their switching service! Stupid, i know.

I suppose my reply is that I want to get out of my bank and stop paying. I'm aware of the effect on my CRA . It is one of the banks you mentioned too! They haven't specifically said it's not enforceable but haven't threatened court action. I would like to get this in writing from them but won't if you don't think it's a good idea.

Thnak you so much for your help, you are ace! :T

Beeincontrol

HI! I have come back today with a few developments, the last time I was here, I sent a copy of the letter 3 to HFC bank and to the solicitors Reston's I sent a copy of letters 1 3 and the one telling them that I was in dispute with Marbles , the reply I got from Reston's solicitors was this,
on 19/11/09

Thank you for your recent Correspondance.

you state the copy of the agreement does not contain the prescribed Terms.
That is not Correct.
All the prescribed terms as required by thr Satutory instrument you quote, are contained at Page 5 (CCA) ie. intrest rates, how you the customer are required to make payments and the credit limit ( the bank is entitled to express the credit limit in the way it has). The agreement is therefore not un-enforceable as you suggest and there is no reason why our Client should "write the debt off".

On 26/11/09 i got this
We write futher to our letter of november 16th 2009
We now require your Specific proposals for repayment of the balance due. Unless an Arrangement is reached by the 4th of december 2009 we have no alternative but to instigate legal proceedings.

Today 15th december I have had a claim form from Northampton county Court

Restons Solicitors are taking me on.
What do I do:eek::eek:

critty_2

never-in-doubt wrote: »

The default will be removed on 21 Feb next year mate (i.e. 8 weeks or so)..... do nothing - just let it drop off!

If for any reason on this date the default is still there you contact the CRA and tell them to remove it as the 6 years have passed.

Sorted

Nah I ain't worried. I was just curious is all. Kinda hoped it was somethign I could use to screw em with lol. Grilfriend is now all good with the idea anyhows. Cheers

never-in-doubt

coffeedog wrote: »

Thanks for your quick reply NID.

I guess I thought they would be able to find the CCA and it would be valid, so didn't change accounts. I just wasn't hopeful it would work out!

I'm actually arranging changing stuff over as we speak, so long as i can get my salary paid into my new account in jan, i should be able to do it. next payment is due in 2nd week of jan.

I'm not behind with my loan but don't want to continue to pay it if it's not enforceable as i'm struggling.

Sorry i did it the wrong way round, i guess i've just been a bit of a wuss about it all. My new bank account is with a&l and I was worried about their switching service! Stupid, i know.

I suppose my reply is that I want to get out of my bank and stop paying. I'm aware of the effect on my CRA . It is one of the banks you mentioned too! They haven't specifically said it's not enforceable but haven't threatened court action. I would like to get this in writing from them but won't if you don't think it's a good idea.

Thnak you so much for your help, you are ace! :T

Hiya

You should do nothing right now until you swap accounts etc..... do not write to them just yet - leave it!

Why do you speak of a 'reply' - reply to what exactly? You're really confusing me here (help!)

What you expect in writing is the same as asking elvis to sign your X-Mas card! It will not happen..... ive already told you it is unenforceable and that if you're speaking about Natwest then they always say the same old !!!!!! and think that they are bigger than the law - please name the bank here? Is it Natpest?

Just leave things until such time you have changed accounts - I need to know the bank cos, for example, if its Abbey - joining A&L is fruitless..... (same business) But I already know the bank is part of RBS - Ive seen their letters before lol

They assume that the recent McGuffick victory changes law - it does not, that wa sa unique case and there was a CCA!

Do you have any other debts or just this? You know this will mess your credit file if you do stop paying and enforce s.127 (unenforceability) - they will default you probably...

Beeincontrol

Sorry, its a bit vague, right I had the CCa back, and it does state all the things that he mentions, But my signature is in a box, no one has counter signed it, it hasnt been witnessed. I thought lack of counter sig and in box was Uninforceable,:o