Unenforceability & Template Letters II

never-in-doubt

terimon wrote: »

Sorry. :embarasse

Was gonna send it to NatWest cos they passed it on to debt collection agency Triton even though they have sent two letters admitting unenforceability. Just wanted to stop any harassment starting from them

Why? Natwest admitted unenforceability so drop it - leave it! There is more chance of having a party with Jacko and Elvis on the moon than Natwest removing your default - let it go mate!

In fact, they haven't defaulted you have they?

If the DCA hassles you then you write to them with the 15. Prove it Letter and nothing else. You do not have to tell them Natwest say it is unenforceable, let them mess up and threaten you then you can sue the DCA!

Are you at least getting the jist as to why there is a process in place mate lol? Please tell me you won't go and send that letter :mad:

never-in-doubt

ricardovich wrote: »

YOU ARE A LEGEND:T:T:T

Well I guess you did tell me, but I'm a dunce:o But what about the Default Removal Letters etc - can I not issue theses to clear my rating???

Cheers mate! Seriously though, until jan 2010 when the 12 test cases make judgement it is pointless firing off the default removal letter as the CRA's are responding with 'sorry, speak to the creditor' which is their get out. I posted links about the McGuffick case - see here: http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/judgments_guidance/mcguffick-v-rbs.pdf

This was a totally separate issue but proved that the CRA's can retain the data on behalf of a lender even when the debt is unenforceable.... I got mine sorted before this case, which as you can imagine, sets a precedent.

hax_2

Hi NID

I think someone needs your valuable help on another thread:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2132455

Other MSE users are giving him/her a hard time again, just like the other user yesterday.

terimon

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Why? Natwest admitted unenforceability so drop it - leave it! There is more chance of having a party with Jacko and Elvis on the moon than Natwest removing your default - let it go mate!

In fact, they haven't defaulted you have they?

If the DCA hassles you then you write to them with the 15. Prove it Letter and nothing else. You do not have to tell them Natwest say it is unenforceable, let them mess up and threaten you then you can sue the DCA!

Are you at least getting the jist as to why there is a process in place mate lol? Please tell me you won't go and send that letter :mad:

I promise i wont send the letter

No NatWest still havent defaulted.

I will continue to ignore them and send the letter if they hassle too much

never-in-doubt

hax wrote: »

Hi NID

I think someone needs your valuable help on another thread:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2132455

Other MSE users are giving him/her a hard time again, just like the other user yesterday.

Cheers mate - sorted lol #10

ricardovich

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Cheers mate! Seriously though, until jan 2010 when the 12 test cases make judgement it is pointless firing off the default removal letter as the CRA's are responding with 'sorry, speak to the creditor' which is their get out. I posted links about the McGuffick case - see here: http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/judgments_guidance/mcguffick-v-rbs.pdf

Man alive - you are THE BOMB :kisses:

Seriously though, before reading all your amazing advice I was really depressed and terrified of opening the mail or answering the phone. You have given me hope. I think everyone on this thread knows that they have messed things up in the past, but it's just amazing to have you and the rest of the posters watching our backs. I'll continue with the letters and will have a much merrier Christmas than I was expecting :xmastree:

Thanks soooooooo much for you time and wisdom - :A

never-in-doubt

ricardovich wrote: »

Man alive - you are THE BOMB :kisses:

Seriously though, before reading all your amazing advice I was really depressed and terrified of opening the mail or answering the phone. You have given me hope. I think everyone on this thread knows that they have messed things up in the past, but it's just amazing to have you and the rest of the posters watching our backs. I'll continue with the letters and will have a much merrier Christmas than I was expecting :xmastree:

Thanks soooooooo much for you time and wisdom - :A

Thanks for the nice post :beer: :beer:

At the end of the day, just remember you are always in control. You decide who you speak to, you decide who you ignore, you decide who and if you pay, you decide who comes to your house, you decide who you let in, you decide whether to ignore them - in fact you decide everything!

The lender has 2 rights;

1. Obtain a CCJ/Default

2. Request payment unless the account is in dispute and/or unenforceable

The lender has no other options - nor do DCA's or Bailiffs

Now stop worrying and enjoy your Crimbo and have a drink on the lenders lol :D:D

Scouse19

Hi NID, back again...still haven't had any response from that letter that I sent asking why they wouldn't send a photocopy instead of a supposed copy of a cca without the sigs (the one you used as a template). They have completely ignored me??? However, Fairfax are chasing again. 2 weeks ago, when I told them I had requested a copy of the CCA from Halifax, they said they would not contact me for 10 days giving Halifax time to respond...they called on Saturday and basically said they back on the collecting road and threatened to pursue a CCJ! The guy was saying that it is them who I should be dealing with now and the Halifax will have no contact with me (but said they did not buy the debt from halifax), and I should send another request to Fairfax and they will then get the copy for me...I asked why I wasn't informed of this by the guy who gave me 10 days and he said he doesn't know! I'm a bit baffled as to where I stand now....what happens if they pursue a CCJ? What are my options if I don't know if they have an enforceable agreement or not???

never-in-doubt

Scouse19 wrote: »

Hi NID, back again...still haven't had any response from that letter that I sent asking why they wouldn't send a photocopy instead of a supposed copy of a cca without the sigs (the one you used as a template). They have completely ignored me??? However, Fairfax are chasing again. 2 weeks ago, when I told them I had requested a copy of the CCA from Halifax, they said they would not contact me for 10 days giving Halifax time to respond...they called on Saturday and basically said they back on the collecting road and threatened to pursue a CCJ! The guy was saying that it is them who I should be dealing with now and the Halifax will have no contact with me (but said they did not buy the debt from halifax), and I should send another request to Fairfax and they will then get the copy for me...I asked why I wasn't informed of this by the guy who gave me 10 days and he said he doesn't know! I'm a bit baffled as to where I stand now....what happens if they pursue a CCJ? What are my options if I don't know if they have an enforceable agreement or not???

Hiya,

Ok, you need to stop speaking to them now. Everything has to be done in writing.

Send this to the DCA (Fairfax):

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed. I would like to point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to you.

The ‘Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance’ states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question. They also state that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive and unfair methods.

Ignoring and disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment, amounts to physical and psychological harassment.

In light of the above, I formally request that no further contact be made concerning the above accounts unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question by way of providing official Notice of Assignment documents.

As Halifax have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested, any legal action you pursue will be averred as both unlawful & vexatious. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed, and returned to the rightful owner (Halifax), within the next 14 days.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

never-in-doubt

Scouse19 wrote: »

they called on Saturday and basically said they back on the collecting road and threatened to pursue a CCJ! The guy was saying that it is them who I should be dealing with now and the Halifax will have no contact with me (but said they did not buy the debt from halifax),

Let them try and issue a CCJ, you simply apply to have it set-aside as the account is obviously in dispute (thus you need to do everything in writing from now on - no phone chats!)

They also need to supply NoA documents before you legally have to deal with them - the debt belongs to Halifax unless they told you they had sold the debt. Fairfax could be 'anyone'....

Scouse19 wrote: »

and I should send another request to Fairfax and they will then get the copy for me...

Utter bollox! In your CCA request there was a section covering that - here:

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties. Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

As is evident, if Halifax did not own the debt they should have passed it to the DCA. Out of interest, has the £1 from Halifax been cashed?

Scouse19 wrote: »

I asked why I wasn't informed of this by the guy who gave me 10 days and he said he doesn't know! I'm a bit baffled as to where I stand now....what happens if they pursue a CCJ? What are my options if I don't know if they have an enforceable agreement or not???

Thus I keep saying - stop speaking to them! Only deal in writing