Unenforceability & Template Letters II

never-in-doubt

Geoff.P wrote: »

hi ,i sent s10 letter to capital one, they replied with the usual strongly implying that their right and im wrong and stating that any further contact on this subject will be acknowledged but they will not enter into any further correspondence. now they have put it into the hands of debitas legal services an in house set up and they have written to me threatening doorstep visits,what should my next step be?
many thanks in advance

Send the letter below and read here for advice: Dealing with Bailiffs Harassment

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me over the past few weeks and these have been duly logged by time and date. Should it be your intention to arrange a doorstep visit, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

There is an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

never-in-doubt

Morethanabitskint wrote: »

I know your a very busy person NID but if i could trouble you for your thoughts on my next move and where i stand it would be infinitely appreciated.

Hiya

You should cease repayments (assuming you haven't already) - you do know you'll get defaulted right? Nothing you can do about that - but better the devil-you-know (i.e. pay the debt and keep your credit rating or don't pay and ruin it for 6 years)...

Send the following letter 4. CCA Dispute

looking4justice

Well thought I would post up to get some answers to my concerns and share my thoughts & facts which will hopefully help others,

Sorry about the length of post / but worth a read to see the way these sharks operate and hide the true facts , how they fake documents to TRY and back up they lies and deciet and hide the dirty business they do ,...

We now have 2 signed agreements and how very different they both are ,.. the second one sent is the killer ,..and someone will be losing some sleep over this mistake and possibly they job ,.. they would not comply to CPR request for underwriters sheet ,.. and more or less said prove secret commissions ,.. I did get a copy of agreement from G E , ...as soon as i seen the agreement i knew it was a fake and definately fraud of some kind even though it had my signature on it,.. it looked spot on , but the give away was that my brokers fee (which i pointed out to them was added to the loan and been subject to interest charge for 7 years,) had changed to a PPI ?????? and after scratching my head noticed that my broker had changed also, it was no longer Ocean Finance , it was some company called "Central Marketing Limited" CML,.... I am thinking this is pure FRAUD ,.. they is no other way to put it ,... So i continue to read the lies in the agreement & letter attached,.. they say i need to take secret commissions up with broker ,.. (what a broker i never used?????) and if you are unsuccessful in your quest you might find the reason is because these brokers do not trade anymore ,.. smart a*se's

you know what i did next , yes i googled this company , guess what nothing comes back !!!, I check to see if they hold or ever held a credit license , yes you guessed nothing !!! I google the address supplied , Bingo we have a hit , But not quite they yet ,.. as this company is "Central Trust Limited"
CTL /well I am thinking straight away , these have same address same office numbers , CTL / CML must be a match ,.. I call them and ask about CML "Central Marketing Limited" the guy says never heard of them!! i explianed they use the same address as yourselves and names very alike starting and ending the same,.. the guy state he has worked for CTL for a number of years and that address as always been they place of business ,.. I said i must have my wires crossed , it must be "Central Trust Limited" he offered to check the records Bingo I knew they could not have anything on me , as i have never done business with either company period ,.. the guy comes back and kindly states that they do not have any records under my name , we had a further conversation and he says was it secured loan or mortgage ? I say mortgage second charge ,.. after 10 minutes he comes back and says Mrs Smiley face I have checked all our records under Mrs Smiley face and under your postcode , thats loans/secured loans / & mortgages and you are not in our record sorry ,.. Sorry you just give me a late xmas present , and the last part was taped for future evidence ,... next job Ocean Finance ,.. so we need to play clever with these ,.. I could remember the underwriters name and colour of his team ,.. so i asked for him (just to prove it was not me going simple), told it was his day off can i help ,.. I asked for £30k loan !!! said i was a previous customer asked for postcode , details appear "Hello Mrs Smiley face can i put you through to underwriters , said no i am happy to talk with you , put on hold for 15 minutes , she came back and said you cancelled your agreement with us , asked who lender would of been if i completed ? First National (now G E MONEY) , and date cancelled was exactly 14 days before i signed agreement , so in 14 days since i cancelled with Ocean Finance , i contacted another broker , he done his checks and searches , found me the best loan to suit my needs ,forwarded me a copy get my signature in place and me send it back , give me 7 days cooling of period without contacting me , further docs to sign then suppose to be another 7 days if i remember rightly ,.. impossible as also 2 weekends within them 14 days , and the best bit is my lenders were the same First National /G E MONEY,... why would i change brokers then?? I try to get the girl on the phone to put our conversation into writing , which she refused point blank , I asked her for her name as not happy with her responces , she refused point blank ,.. I asked her why after 7 years , if i cancelled my agreement so in reality just an application (as never seen it through) would you know my name and details just from the postcode i give you , surely you do not keep all aplication , especially 7 years later ,... at this point pretty annoyed

I called G E MONEY to ask for my details on the broker as the address supplied was wrong as CTL ,.. I was given another address and directors name as point of contact !!!! I called OFT with address supplied they checked out Central Marketing Limited , I am saying they do not exsist , the OFT point out they run under CTL Central Trust Limited ,.. that explains the same address ,.. Well this starts getting better (CML director and contact name is the same as CTL),..as we have these on tape saying that this company does not have any dealing with me ,.. OFT pointed out some other companies running under CTL , Central Broker Limited / Central Mortgage Limited ,.. and the brokers could only work & supply leads to Central Mortgages Limited ,.. so how could the broker side step they sister company who they are tied to to offer the application to First National ? and if they never done this , then why would a mortgage provider pass customers to other lenders? especially as someone must be paying brokers wages!! wouldthis point to SECRET COMMISSIONS PAID,.. it has to in reality as it certainly does not make sense , to say both Central Companies never recieved nothing in return ,... as my agreement appears if i never paid a brokers fee ,... and it certainaly does not show the lender paid , so who did ? and after reading all the T's & C's , no mention of the broker might recieve a commission !!!
totally consealed ,...
I was that amazed at the agreement i call ramdomly to request another as every thing was white in the agreement , no background , as would be they if a close copy ,... well the second agreement arrived , it is a close copy alright and background grey as imaging the colour in the original agreement , were as first agreement was copied with brightness high to conceal marks visible to the eye,... the latest one was dynomite ,.. in the signature part held to the light you can see my signature crossing each other one is about 2mm off linning up ,.. from the front on all looks normal ,.. until you look at the box with signature from FN employee , it has a line running corner to corner , other box at the side of this also a line through (this box had nothing within , would this line placed imply that the box had no signature within before it was an void section due to placement of line?????? so from no agreement , to 2 agreements ,.. and one showing Fraud , double signature is fraud ,.. but without the second agreement would of been snookered , as the 1st agreement had the lines removed and showed no double signature ,

what are peoples thoughts on this ,.. and i was thinking of contacting the fraud squad ,.. as if my agreement is displaying this made up company they want me to believe ,.. well thats fraud and whilst they show this as my agreement I feel i should not continue to pay it ,

looking4justice

I am pleased with my Detective work and the new evidence I have collected which includes full statement of account , this itself is quite interesting also , How would one stand if it can be proven that this account was put into arrears from day one and continued throughout the 7 years to collect a monthly interest charge which was around £220 at the start raising to £450 per month at this present day ,.. my monthly payments only £260 month ,.. I was contracted to make my 1st payment 4 weeks after advance recieved , 1 week before 1st payment due we were kindly charged interest , 1 week later we pay our payment at the beginning of the month (not knowing about the interest charge) as this interest charge was added to our balance our account would continue to be in arreas ,.. as this will explian , at the end of this month 1 week before our second payment due we get hit with a interest charge £221 , again we pay our payment not realising infact our balance is increasing !!! and that was the tone set , the interest charges continue to increase as the months and years pass ,..
Also I have come to a conclussion that they use another trick to get the account into arrears (they love this way of operating as interest is charged on total balance £30k +,..) As soon as you have paid the 1st payment interest rate will increase ,,,my first payment £260 @ 8% before the 2nd payment is due the interest rate is 8.4 , so inreality your monthly payment of £260 will not cover this , and these tiny little amounts are enough to put you in arrears and justify the month interest charges of £220+ my interest would finally reach 12.9 % which would be around £345 per month to pay , so if my monthly payment stays the same then were does the extra £85 per month go? well its added to balance every month !! then we have the interest charge end of each month £230
so our monthly payment does not touch the balance and never will , our payment is eaten up and £315 per month kindly added to balance , a balance which continues to grow with no light at the end of the tunnel , no finish date

This is definately not right , so we read and re read the conditions on the rear of our agreement ,.. and we got the answer to our concerns of no end date insight ,..

"Unless FN choose to increase the number of monthly repayment instalments payable under this agreement, the remaining amount due on the loan will be payable in full at the time that the last monthly repayment falls due"

so as the balance is £14k higher then start of agreement , and we have 18 years left of a 25 year agreement , so averaging £2k per year ,looking on bright side thats another £36k + £14k = £50k

so I struggle along for the next 18 years to get rid of these sharks ,.. by the time its paid I am a (tired)frail old lady ,.. ready for a rest ,.. but no these sharks will request £50k payment
£50k that they secrectly have been saving up , ... how would one cover this debt owed ???????? well if it never finished you off , suppose you could remortgage with them lol ,..

and all started with a unlawful £220 interest charge which was obviously a mistake ,.. a costly mistake at that for me , but definately to they advantage ,.. £50k at least advantage ,.. you would never believe £220 could cause so much damage

and you need to check your full statement of accounts , as could be happening to you

never-in-doubt

looking4justice wrote: »

I am pleased with my Detective work and the new evidence I have collected

Mate start a new thread here: Debt-Free Wannabe

Post all the text into one post (instead of 2) and paragraph it lol

looking4justice

when you think it can not get worse , here is what start all this off ,.. I had a suspended repossession order , I offered to pay double payments to catch up on arrears ,.. the missed payments ,.. I thought the best way to catch up ,... £260 for normal monthly payment , and £260 to reduce the arrears ,.. just before the date before we thought the arrears would be cleared we phoned G E to make card payment and requested statements to confirm the reduction in arrears and next payment to clear them ,.. well we were very shocked to realise that the arrears and balance had infact increased ,.. the reason why is quite simple ,.. the monthly interest charge was now £335 per month ,.. and this would be applied the week after payment ,.. (double payment) ,.. the extra £260 arrears payment was eaten up by the interest charge and the £75 gets added to the "secret savings account" they seem to think they have , (added to balance ) so in fact the balance would continue to grow to the advantage of lenders , but this would not be the case if the mistake interest charge at beginning of agreement was not mistakenly place on account giving the impression and making it legal for every other interest charge to follow each month , which surely has happened,.. well when we see this we contacted them and request our CCA as we were going to see a solicitor ,..we were told if i agreed it will be delt with in house and payments frozen till resolved which was only fair ,.. i agreed and give them the benefit of doubt ,..

guess how they thank you ,.. by leaving it for 18 (total) then send us a letter saying we had 2 weeks to leave the property just before xmas , and as a goodbye (xmas pressie) £6,000 arrears from the 18 month they take the p*ss (sorry about language really annoy me when i think deeply about it ) 18 month whilst on a suspended repo order , no payments , so how can they even think of saying i never contacted them and they never suggested payments would be frozen ,.. because if i never contacted them , then surely thats putting me in the worsest situation ever ignoring my lenders ,.. they know they are in the wrong , can not wait to see what they say on this point ,.. divide and conquer i believe is the phrase i was looking for

wee_blu

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya

Who are the lenders - please name and shame lol

Also, you'll get defaulted if you pursue unenforceability - its one of the [STRIKE]perks[/STRIKE] bummers around it all i'm afraid. But if you cannot pay and little other choice than pay the same debt for 20+ years then why not? You can rebuild your credit in 6 years - can you pay off all the debt you owe in the same time frame?

How much debt are we talking by the way? Also, who are the lenders? Cheers

Hi NID, lender is MBNA on both cards and debt is total of approx £17,000. As l own home will have to try and sell and hope that there is some equity in it. Had a good job at one time but due to various factors am now out of work, not that l'm just trying to shrug off my responsibilities.

cheers wee blu

astravanman

never-in-doubt wrote: »

I'm expecting the same to happen here, first a letter confirming they do not have the agreement followed up with idle threats and lots of bad photocopies & concocted documents :think::whistle::think:

I'm expecting similar from natwest. All they sent us was a hashed together load of junk & copies of T&C's. The first page was headed Credit Agreement Regulated By The CCAct 174 but nowhere does it contain a signature or even an empty box for signature! We've sent them the "CCA Query" letter but from what I've been reading about twatwest they'll just reply with some drivel saying they've complied with CCA and will pursue the debt.

Not sure whether to send a SAR to find out if they do have a proper signed cca, although I'm thinking why waste a tenner as I'm sure they would have included it if they had it?

never-in-doubt

astravanman wrote: »

I'm expecting similar from natwest. All they sent us was a hashed together load of junk & copies of T&C's. The first page was headed Credit Agreement Regulated By The CCAct 174 but nowhere does it contain a signature or even an empty box for signature! We've sent them the "CCA Query" letter but from what I've been reading about twatwest they'll just reply with some drivel saying they've complied with CCA and will pursue the debt.

Not sure whether to send a SAR to find out if they do have a proper signed cca, although I'm thinking why waste a tenner as I'm sure they would have included it if they had it?

Yep - don't SAR mate, waste of time. If they had the CCA they'd send it you already, if not then it is unenforceable until they do.

Go_on_martin_lewis

Go_on_martin_lewis wrote: »

no theres two accounts, each with about 4k debt on each. what i mean is ive always paid minimum repayments each month like 100 pound. so i stil have about 4k debt accumulated from 1996.

hey NiD, dont know if you saw my reply above.

what do you think i should do then? i've ignored the letters like you advised to. but they still send statements. shall i write a letter stating that i acknowledge the debt as unenforceable?