Unenforceability & Template Letters II

hackenbush

Never-in-Doubt, I can't tell you how grateful I am for all the help. My hair was going grey through all this and now I'm actually getting good night's sleep again.

With your help it turns out that all my cards are unenforceable. If I'd had a good time getting into the debts the card companies so happily tempted me with it might be a different matter but every day I used my cards was a nightmare I couldn't escape from. When you start using your cards to pay your cards you know you're in trouble!

Anyway, enough of that - without your advise I would never have got through this.

Thank you so much!

hackenbush wrote: »

Thanks! I know you've replied and answered the questions on my multiple threads! I guess I was just surprised that they replied with exactly the same letter to the first one. I was feeling a bit like "when will they stop?" How many recorded delivery replies will I end up having to make before they stop writing to say they still see the debt as enforceable?!

Letter (3) questions the Prescribed Terms which are on the Barclaycard CCAs, whilst it is actually the original copy that is at issue at this stage. This is the same with my Halifax CCA.

I've already sent the Section 10 Request in reply to their original reply saying they're in compliance with Section 78!

It gets really complicated!

My fear is ignoring them after they've said that they still deem the debt payable.

Am I making sense?!

luvfreebeez

Hi,
I started a thread earlier asking for help after the dca told me to send my cca request to the OC (egg) Well, from the replies i now understand that it is the dca duty to provide cca whether they have it or have to go back to the oc themselves.

Anyway, im just looking through the template letters now and wondering which one I need to use in order to reply and tell them its their job to provide the cca. And do i need to re-send the postal order?

Any takers?! Many thanks in advance.

smifff_2

hackenbush wrote: »

Thanks! I know you've replied and answered the questions on my multiple threads! I guess I was just surprised that they replied with exactly the same letter to the first one. I was feeling a bit like "when will they stop?" How many recorded delivery replies will I end up having to make before they stop writing to say they still see the debt as enforceable?!

Letter (3) questions the Prescribed Terms which are on the Barclaycard CCAs, whilst it is actually the original copy that is at issue at this stage. This is the same with my Halifax CCA.

I've already sent the Section 10 Request in reply to their original reply saying they're in compliance with Section 78!

It gets really complicated!

My fear is ignoring them after they've said that they still deem the debt payable.

Am I making sense?!

I too am dealing with Barclay for a Visa and Mastercard, I've not paid them since Oct 09. All they've sent me is rubbish, They wrote to me askking for my account No, although they had included it at the top of the letter requesting it, I ignored that letter. I got a letter at the end of December saying they were dealing with my complaint and it will be resolved by the 19th Jan, i wasn't aware that I'd complained. the week before last I sent them letter 4. Last Monday i got my 1st phone call from them asking If I would like to give him my debit card No to make a payment, I said no thanks and DO NOT phone me again, he then said they have every right to phone as I owe them money. I told him the account is in dispute so they have no right to phone me, he said "oh, well interest will be added" so I told him as account is in dispute they cannot add interest, he said oh again then hung up. On Friday I got a letter saying they are sorry they have not dealt with my complaint by the date they said they would and that it would now be dealt with by 19th Feb. I suspect they are preparing my CCA with photoshop and are still trying to find my details.
Well thats my story so far.

Just relax, if they had a proper CCA they would have sent it.

never-in-doubt

fto wrote: »

Thank you for the reply. In all I owe £16k, £13k of that on cc, £8k of that is on the 2 cards I have had for a long time.I have filled in a form for a dmp at cccs & it will take around 8 years to pay my debts,with the sudden drop in income(very little chance of a higher income).So I may as well claim unenforceability on the 2 cards.Main question is, should I claim unenforceability before I go on a DMP.

You won't need a DMP, just stop paying now and send the CCA Request off. Pointless paying cos they will go into default, they always do, and you should stop payments when they do but as you're already thinking of a DMP, just hold back.

Basically, you can pay forever to clear the debt (8 years or whatever) so it is worth trying unenforceability first, worse case scenario is the default will be gone after 6 years and the debt will be statute barred so in essence you'll be free of debt in 6 years which seems better than 8, surely?

So send the CCA Request to the lenders and see what (if anything) they come back with...

never-in-doubt

hackenbush wrote: »

Thanks! I know you've replied and answered the questions on my multiple threads! I guess I was just surprised that they replied with exactly the same letter to the first one. I was feeling a bit like "when will they stop?" How many recorded delivery replies will I end up having to make before they stop writing to say they still see the debt as enforceable?!

Letter (3) questions the Prescribed Terms which are on the Barclaycard CCAs, whilst it is actually the original copy that is at issue at this stage. This is the same with my Halifax CCA.

I've already sent the Section 10 Request in reply to their original reply saying they're in compliance with Section 78!

It gets really complicated!

My fear is ignoring them after they've said that they still deem the debt payable.

Am I making sense?!

Hiya

Page 1 outlines the process, you send letter 1, then 2, then 3 then finally letter 4 (section 10 letter).

If you've sent all these then regardless what the lender states, they are in default and you need to ignore them from now on. They will contact you again at which point you post what they say on your thread, or continue to ignore them if it is a silly threat.

Only court action should make you panic, but even then, you immediately send the form back requesting strike-out due to the account being in dispute.

never-in-doubt

hackenbush wrote: »

Never-in-Doubt, I can't tell you how grateful I am for all the help. My hair was going grey through all this and now I'm actually getting good night's sleep again.

With your help it turns out that all my cards are unenforceable. If I'd had a good time getting into the debts the card companies so happily tempted me with it might be a different matter but every day I used my cards was a nightmare I couldn't escape from. When you start using your cards to pay your cards you know you're in trouble!

Anyway, enough of that - without your advise I would never have got through this.

Thank you so much!

Hiya

Its no problem, you're welcome for any help or advice - if you get any erroneous letters, just post them up and we'll sort them for you. The main thing here is not to panic and start to worry, at the end of the day the lender can only take court action against you (well they can't but they may try as a last resort) - when they do this you immediately fight back, usually sending off your defence that the account is in dispute and the balance is unenforceable until such time as the lender complies with yous CCA Request (s.77/s.78s.79 request). The court, at this point, has no alternative but to strike out their claim as they cannot take any formal action whilst an account is disputed or unenforceable.

So you remain in control really, something you obviously never realised in the past! At least you do now, just bear in mind they cannot do anything (through a court) without you knowing about it and you can defend it very easily. If you think you'll lose, you make an offer to repay (like a fiver a month or whatever) and this will stop any action as well.

Hope the advice helps - just chill now and buy some hair-dye :eek:

never-in-doubt

luvfreebeez wrote: »

Hi,
I started a thread earlier asking for help after the dca told me to send my cca request to the OC (egg) Well, from the replies i now understand that it is the dca duty to provide cca whether they have it or have to go back to the oc themselves.

Anyway, im just looking through the template letters now and wondering which one I need to use in order to reply and tell them its their job to provide the cca. And do i need to re-send the postal order?

Any takers?! Many thanks in advance.

Hiya

You should send the original (or a copy) of the CCA Request (and PO) back to them with a covering letter stating the following (and fill in the dates as well):

'I refer to your letter dated XX/XX/2010 in which you state that I should send my request to the original creditor, Egg. May I point out that if it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA(1974) applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties. Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

Therefore I expect my original request to be dealt with, and this (along with the original Postal Order) is attached for you to action or pass directly to Egg, as you may see fit. However, please be assured that you will be in default of my s.78 request if you do not deal with this request and as such, the account will be unenforceable until such time as you do comply.

As your company is the one writing to me, you are responsible for ensuring compliance and I therefore look forward to hearing from you in due course. I must point out the 12 (+2) statutory time limit is still running from the date of my original request which was XX/XX/XXXX'.

never-in-doubt

smifff wrote: »

I too am dealing with Barclay for a Visa and Mastercard, I've not paid them since Oct 09. All they've sent me is rubbish, They wrote to me askking for my account No, although they had included it at the top of the letter requesting it, I ignored that letter. I got a letter at the end of December saying they were dealing with my complaint and it will be resolved by the 19th Jan, i wasn't aware that I'd complained. the week before last I sent them letter 4. Last Monday i got my 1st phone call from them asking If I would like to give him my debit card No to make a payment, I said no thanks and DO NOT phone me again, he then said they have every right to phone as I owe them money. I told him the account is in dispute so they have no right to phone me, he said "oh, well interest will be added" so I told him as account is in dispute they cannot add interest, he said oh again then hung up. On Friday I got a letter saying they are sorry they have not dealt with my complaint by the date they said they would and that it would now be dealt with by 19th Feb. I suspect they are preparing my CCA with photoshop and are still trying to find my details.
Well thats my story so far.

Just relax, if they had a proper CCA they would have sent it.

Hi matey - you have to bear in mind though that after the recent McGuffick case they can actually ring you (I think upto 8 times a day)... :eek:

But that said, changing your number or blocking withheld numbers does the trick, but legally they can ring you so just bear that in mind! The only things that haven't changed is their ability to enforce the debt without the agreement, but otherwise they can add a default and they can hassle you (to an extent).

But you do right to ignore them, they will soon go away and prey on someone more willing to [STRIKE]be duped[/STRIKE] pay up!

never-in-doubt

hackenbush wrote: »

In response to my Section 78 Request Barclaycard sent me a blank CCA with no dates or sigs. I replied with a Dispute Letter again requesting a copy of the dated CCA with my sig. They have responded:

They do not have to send a signed copy, a reconstitution is perfectly acceptable. What you make of that, is up to you - some people take it as an assumption that no agreement exists (if it did then why not copy it?) whilst others see it as a stalling tactic. However, in your case i'd be prone to ignore them from here-on-in unless they threaten court in which case post back.

Why was your agreement unenforceable again? Lack of signature doesn't provide enough to assume unenforceability? Was there any errors or things missing from the prescribed terms (excluding the limit)..>?

I_Love_Crisps

never-in-doubt wrote: »

They do not have to send a signed copy, a reconstitution is perfectly acceptable. What you make of that, is up to you - some people take it as an assumption that no agreement exists (if it did then why not copy it?) whilst others see it as a stalling tactic. However, in your case i'd be prone to ignore them from here-on-in unless they threaten court in which case post back.

Why was your agreement unenforceable again? Lack of signature doesn't provide enough to assume unenforceability? Was there any errors or things missing from the prescribed terms (excluding the limit)..>?

Hi m8...sending letter 4 to Capital One today, you say they dont have to provide signature...the form they sent was obv just a new application form, it had all the terms on, but was obv not the original agreement (no sig, just a new form), is this going to be unenforceable?