Voluntary Liquidation

castle96

? Licenced premised - Winding up petition 3 mths ago. Appointment of liquidator, voluntary liquidation under Insolvency and Coys Act 86, this granted 10/09. Assets £25k, debts £110k incl HMRC and vat. LTD COY.
This Coy is still trading as normal, selling alcolhol/food, as though nothing has changed. No notice on windows.
This person is a 'serial disolver/liquidator.
HOW can this business still trade ??? in liquidation ?

maxmycardagain

the term is "Phoenix trading"

the directors set up a new ltd company 3 months before the old one went bump

everything is sold to the new ltd company by the liquidators

and its all legal


how much do they owe you?

i was owed £14,000 by one - hes bought a pub now...

you can complain to companies house, and HMRC may (may) be after him but its doubtful

castle96

amazing !
I would have thought with the IR/VAT being involved, this could not happen.
How to find out the new trading name ?

wilcoskip

Sounds like a phoenix company. Basically, a new company is formed by the owner of the old company. Once a liquidator is appointed it's their job to sell off any company assets to raise money to pay off any creditors. Usually the amount they can get for these assets is much less than the book value.

What normally happens is a 'tame' asset valuer will arrange a sale of the old company's assets to the new company, allowing the new company to go on trading.

It's all very murky and shady, and if this person is a serial liquidator then the liquidator will have to mention this in their report and it could lead to a ban on being a director for a limited period of time. What's more likely, though, is that the new company will be owned by the old company's owner's wife/husband, so any ban won't be a problem.

There are some instances where this arrangement can be a good thing - if a company has a run of bad luck (eg bad debts, their own customers going bust) then a phoenix arrangement gives a fresh start and at least allows employees a chance to keep their job. Smaller suppliers will also stand a chance of getting paid.

It sounds like this isn't the case in the situation you describe, though.

Sorry if this doesn't answer your question - I wasn't sure if you were asking how this could happen - how it was possible, or if you were just saying how unfair it all was (in which case, all I can say is: yes, it is. You're right.)

castle96

thanks - yes, how unfair. The major creditors £60k, are the IR and VAT. Unsecured. SURELY they want their money

How to trace the new trading style/name/director ? Surely it can't be the old Director ??

maxmycardagain

castle96 wrote: »

thanks - yes, how unfair. The major creditors £60k, are the IR and VAT. Unsecured. SURELY they want their money

How to trace the new trading style/name/director ? Surely it can't be the old Director ??

as its panto season...


OH YES IT CAN BE.....

only a barred director would have a problem, to get barred you have to have kidnapped the IPs cat and sold his kids to the gypsies


HMRC have so many like this they seem to not bother UNLESS (in rare cases) fraud can be proven

its possible to find the new company but not by any means i can post here.........

maxmycardagain

in fact, its almost certain to be the old companies directors

why?

well, the IPs like fast easy cases, and the old MD would know the trading situation of the old ltd company and know if it was worth having, a mate has just lost £40,000 to this scam, the new comp was set up 3 months before they pulled the plug on the old one, its easier and less risky than going BR by far

and you get the stock/customers/etc off the old company for peanuts

castle96

thanks Max
(what is IP)

He is also a Dir of the failed Coy's parent Coy, which is profitable

HOW do I find out, what you can't let me know ...?

castle96

if I do a Director search at eg. Duport, will it show the new Coy name, as the liquidation was only on 20/10

maxmycardagain

Insolvency Practioner

Charges £750/hr

knowing who the directors old/new are makes little difference really, its all a done deal

castle96

"unless fraud can be proven"

surely there must have been fraud (ie taking the profits, before paying out £60k of tax/ni, etc)

Agter all, you must earn the money in the first place to accumulate the debt with IR/vat, etc