Please can you help?

dj_flame

Hi there,
First post so please bear with me.

After 12 years loyal service, My company has over the past two weeks advised myself and 7 other people that they are about to reorganise our section.
As such we are at risk of redundancy.

We have been told we must re apply for our jobs, Which will mean more hours, Less money and me and 2 others loosing our company vehicles.

The money that we will drop to is in a word embarrassing, ie 5.80 per hour, Which for the job we do it's really bad.

Anyway, To cut a long story short, I have been offered my job back (on less money as above). I think that I'm going to jump ship because they have offered 2 positions to people (who in my opinion could not run a tap) for more money than me.

I know they can do what they want, But my question is

If I walk away is it voluntery redundancy or termination of contract.

Also is this not constructive dismissal?:mad:

Thanks
DJ Flame (yes before you ask I do)

londondulwich

In order to offer you back your job you have to resign or be dismissed. The implication of the offer is that you do not have a job at the moment.

A dismissal triggers a number of statutory safe nets put in place to ensure the termination is justified.

A resignation does not.

If you have not resigned and have not been dismissed the request for you to reapply for same position you already hold is a nonsense.

Your employer cannot afford to maintain all the same employees but needs to maintain the same output. This is a problem.

By accepting that you must reapply, you are accepting your employer's solution to the problem. This solution implies resignation. However, a resignation given under this sort of pressure could be interpreted as constructive. The employer constructed circumstances or directed events to force your resignation.

If you refuse to reapply for the job you put the employer on the spot. Either they continue to pay the wage they cannot afford or they unilaterally reduce your pay or they dismiss you.

A unilateral reduction in pay is unlawful.

A dismissal because they cannot afford to fund your post is a dismissal by way of redundancy.

Both courses of action can open the way for legal action.

However, if the employer is genuinely struggling to keep business going, the liklihood of enforcing any financial benefit from litigation is doubtful.

timmmers

With 12 yrs in there ..no wonder they are trying to sneak around paying you redundancy. If you leave they have managed it. I doubt you/d be entitled to any benefits either since you would have made yourself unemployed. I think it's about 6 weeks before you can get JSA ..not a problem if you get fired or redundant. .. a long time with no income for doing nothing wrong.

londondulwich is right of course, why would you apply for a job you already have?

Some companies really are resorting to low tactics these days. :mad:

t

getmore4less

This is a reasonable option for an employer to use to achieve a reduction in staff.

It is a simple way to do a fair selection process as an alternative to skills matrix etc.

Put people at risk and use a recruitment process for the number of same positions/alternative jobs that are available

This is how I see your situation

Be clear here they have not offered you your old job back this is a different job, an alternative, you don't have to apply or accept if it is not suitable alternative.

If they want to withdraw the at risk and redundancy it needs to be your old job as is with no changes.

You are at risk and the alternative job offered is not suitable(you can argue) so you are redundant or they withdraw and give you your old job back.

Get legal advice, ACAS, check you household insurance it often covers these issues.

Do they have HR/legal on this or are they just hoping people will go with what they say?

dj_flame

Thanks for your reply's it's really helpful. :beer:
I must say that the company is a multi national business in no danger of going under.

The HR person is not here in person for these meetings, Just a director and manager.
I have been told I can take redundancy if I so wish, However, I think if I don't once I've trained up the other people in what they need to do I'll be "potted" anyway:mad:

If you think it's bad for me another guy in our office has been asked to take a 10k cut!! He's not wearing them and off he goes.

Pete111

The advice given is sound. If I were you I would take the redundancy and use the money to tide you over whislt finding something else.

Are they paying enhanced Redundancy pay? if so make sure you get the correct amount buy ensureing you know how they calculate this. Also, you should note that no matter what your contract says, your length of service means you have 12 weeks notice from the date of termination (not teh date the consultation started) which you need to be allowed to work/take as garden leave or be paid in leiu for.

Rgs

P

dj_flame

Sorry, Just so I fully understand, I will get a letter of termination, and need that so I can work whilst on pay in lieu?

Redundancy will be paid at the minimum possible.
I will get 12 weeks for each year, And then 90 days in lieu.
I knew I should have worked harder at school....

Wonderful thing hindsight! :rolleyes:

Thanks

getmore4less

If there is some training to do why not try and cut a deal and improve on the default package.


You never know when you will meet people again so being positive and trying to help(even though it stinks) can only do good in the long run

getmore4less

dj_flame wrote: »

Sorry, Just so I fully understand, I will get a letter of termination, and need that so I can work whilst on pay in lieu?

Redundancy will be paid at the minimum possible.
I will get 12 weeks for each year, And then 90 days in lieu.
I knew I should have worked harder at school....

Wonderful thing hindsight! :rolleyes:

Thanks

Minimum redundancyis age related but basic is 1 week(capped) per year.

you notice should be paid at full rate.

if notice paid as PILON then your contract should be terminated and you can do what you like.

McKneff

Statutory redundancy is ONE weeks pay (capped at £380) for each year of service so 12 in total. (not 12 per year as in your post)
(depending on whether you are over 41, in which case it is 1 and a half week for each year.

Hope that helps.

Notice pay is also 1 week for each year so 12 in total, not necessarily in lieu,
you may have to work your notice. Depends on the company really