BT took £170 without permission - help!

Primus84

Can anyone help me get in touch with someone at BT who can help?!

Last month BT took £170 without permission, when I spoke to them they admitted they had made a mistake - I called a month earlier and asked them to change the billing date by a few days - this resulted in me being switched onto quarterly billing.

Without any notice £170 came out of my bank account, this has cost me £40 in bank charges and £25 in a late payment to my loan charge since it caused the repayment direct debit to bounce twice.

I can't get anywhere with BT in India - apparently they won't reimburse the money but I'm now getting phone calls asking me to pay my BT bill - not likely until this is resolved!

I've noticed there are BT representatives on the forums, please get in touch as I need this to be resolved urgently - bank want the money in the next month or two but the loan company keep calling regarding it and they're threatening to add on additional charges if I don't pay the £25 now.

Problem is I haven't got £25 spare to pay them, I need BT to sort this whole mess out for me ASAP.

Someone please help!

BT_company_representative

Hi Primus84, I have sent you a PM and I look forward to hearing from you.

Primus84

Ian Livingstone's office is now looking into it

ACDeag

Primus84 wrote: »

Can anyone help me get in touch with someone at BT who can help?!

Last month BT took £170 without permission, when I spoke to them they admitted they had made a mistake - I called a month earlier and asked them to change the billing date by a few days - this resulted in me being switched onto quarterly billing.

Without any notice £170 came out of my bank account, this has cost me £40 in bank charges and £25 in a late payment to my loan charge since it caused the repayment direct debit to bounce twice.

I can't get anywhere with BT in India - apparently they won't reimburse the money but I'm now getting phone calls asking me to pay my BT bill - not likely until this is resolved!

I've noticed there are BT representatives on the forums, please get in touch as I need this to be resolved urgently - bank want the money in the next month or two but the loan company keep calling regarding it and they're threatening to add on additional charges if I don't pay the £25 now.

Problem is I haven't got £25 spare to pay them, I need BT to sort this whole mess out for me ASAP.

Someone please help!

If it was Direct Debit all you have to do is call your bank and say "I want to be refunded under the Direct Debit guarantee" and they will refund you and claim the money back off BT. This is a no quibble guarantee as BT will soon come after you and it will then be up to you and BT to sort out the bill.

http://www.thesmartwaytopay.co.uk/family-life/direct-debit-guarantee.asp

Primus84

I know that, thanks all the same tho! But the problem is the bank charges I have incurred!

ACDeag

Primus84 wrote: »

I know that, thanks all the same tho! But the problem is the bank charges I have incurred!

It would have helped if you had mentioned that!

Not sure you will get your bank charges refunded, pretty rare for that to happen.

Primus84

If I incurred bank charges as a result of them taking money they were not entitled to then do you think I should have to pay? The only reason I incurred any charges were as a result of them taking £170 when they shouldn't have taken anything.

I cannot believe that if a company takes money from your account without permission that it is pretty rare to get the charges you incurred refunded?!

ACDeag

Primus84 wrote: »

If I incurred bank charges as a result of them taking money they were not entitled to then do you think I should have to pay? The only reason I incurred any charges were as a result of them taking £170 when they shouldn't have taken anything.

I cannot believe that if a company takes money from your account without permission that it is pretty rare to get the charges you incurred refunded?!

It is rare because the bank will say it is BT who should pay and BT will say not their problem.

Primus84

I'll not be letting them away with that kind of an answer. If needs be I'll take small claims track at the county court. The reason for posting this message was really to try to gather some contact details which I now have.

Legally, they're in the wrong so they'll end up having to pay.

Mark_In_Hampshire

Primus84 wrote: »

I'll not be letting them away with that kind of an answer. If needs be I'll take small claims track at the county court. The reason for posting this message was really to try to gather some contact details which I now have.

Legally, they're in the wrong so they'll end up having to pay.

I'm afraid that's not correct.

You instructed the payee that they have open access to your bank account by requesting to pay this way, using direct debit.

The payee can then take "unspecified amounts" from your account on "unspecified dates".

It is then up to the payee to take the right amounts on the right dates and to notify you in advance.

In the case of BT the notification is "up to 10 days". NOT 10 days. In practice therefore, you don't need to be notified of amounts before they are debited, as "up to 10 days" is meaningless.

If the payee takes the wrong amount(s) on the wrong date(s) causing you to incur bank charges:

1. The payee is not obliged to refund your bank charges for you, because there is nothing in the DD guarantee that the payee is responsible for your consequential losses thanks to their error. They have some control over your bank account, but no responsibility - that remains with you;

2. The bank is not obliged to refund your charges, because the bank has made no error.

YOU are liable for the charges.

You might be interested in this email thread I had with BACS about this:

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Thank you for your email

The guarentee does not cover any charges that you may incure.This would be a matter between yourself and your bank.If you have anyfurther queries please contact Apacs.the governing body of the Direct Debit Sheme and they should be able to assist you .Their telephone number is 0207 711 6200.

Kind regards

Wendy Kimberley

Service Desk

t: +44 (0)870 1650018 / 0100698 (direct)
f: +44 (0)1582 812227
t: +44 (0)870 165 0019 / 870 010 0699 (switchboard)

we believe it is important to reduce any impact on the environment, and ask that if possible you do not print this email

Sent: 09 November 2007 11:10
To: Service Desk
Subject: RE: DD question
Hi Wendy,

The wording of the guarantee, and the refund, remains vague and ambiguous. Perhaps an example would help:

As we have clarified, my Bank will not require any evidence or documentary proof from a payee that I have authorised them to debit my account.

I have a balance of £100 in my account.

A payee forwards a Direct Debit Mandate request, not authorised by me, to my Bank who action this, and the payee then requests payment of £200 under this false mandate.

My Bank refuse to pay the Direct Debit because I do not have sufficient funds available, and charge me £39 for doing so. No payment has been made to the payee, so there is no payment to the payee to refund here.

The Direct Debit Guarantee requires my Bank to immediately and without question refund the £39 charge, and any consequential charges, because “in the event of an error, your bank or building society must give you a full an immediate refund of the amount paid”

Is the above the correct interpretation of the protection offered by the Direct Debit Guarantee?

Thanks,
Mark

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As you can see, the mistake here is in using Direct Debit in the first place.

The payee may refund your bank charges to you, but they are not under any obligation to do so.

If the bank charges are unlawful, you may well be able to get them back from the Bank in due course.