Poor University Education

giantmutantbroccoli

I think there's a fundamental problem with the way you're viewing this situation, OP. The main difference between school and university is that in school it is the teacher's responsibility to teach you. At university it is your responsibility to learn, and your responsibility to deal with any obstacles to your learning.

The email problem i had was because i had missed a lecture because i travel for over an hour to uni and it was snowing so because of road conditions in my area i couldnt get there. emailed 3 times as mentioned apologising and asking if he could send the lecture slides to me as it was the information needed for an essay (modules are normally supported by blackboard but this one wasnt) no reply until i said something along the lines of...do we need to do a cover sheet-oh by the way, still not heard off you. he basically avoided it and didnt help so i had to email a part time lecturer who met me with the slides and went through everything with me.

You emailed him 3 times? The fact that he didn't reply to the first email would suggest that to me that you should see him in person to sort this out. If you asked a question regarding something he spelled out clearly in a lecture I'm not surprised he was snotty about it. There are always a few students who miss lectures and expect the lecturer to give them the notes, and it never makes them popular. You should know that your lecturer is NOT just your lecturer - he will have other lectures to give, other groups to deal with and most likely his own research work to attend to. As far as he's concerned, his time is very valuable and if students can't be bothered to make use of it when it's offered to them he's unlikely to want to help them out of hours.
I did a science degree at Manchester, and travelled for 2 hours to get in in the morning . Yes I missed lectures, but I had arrangements with friends that we would swap notes and it worked out very well - they would attend the 9am lectures so I didn't have to get up at 6am, and I would attend the 5pm ones so they could go home early. Obviously we didn't do that all the time, but it was a great help on those days when I missed my train. I strongly recommend that you make friends with some of the other students so that next time the roads are blocked up and you can't get in you can borrow notes from someone.

we were given an assigment title that was ambiguous and it was to be written in a style that no-one had done so far. we were literally told the title and sent on our way to research the area (which again had not been done before so no-one knew how to do that either as it was our own research, not reading books that had to be done)

That happened to me a couple of times, too. I suspect it's happened to most students. They set things like that to encourage independent thinking and to get you to develop your research skills. I was once set an essay on the topic of "environmental genomics" and to this day I still do not know exactly what it is - but I know that at the time I did the essay, no one else (even the people reportedly doing research into it) was exactly sure. Another one was a lab practice session where we were shown the strangest peice of glassware we'd ever seen and told to work out what it was for. All out previous lab practicals had consisted of a sheet of paper with instructions on it that we had to follow to the letter, so everyone was completely stumped. A hell of a lot of students complained that they didn't know what to do, as if this was the tutor's fault, and were told that an enquiring mind and the desire to learn were vitally important to anyone who wanted a career as a scientist. In the end we didn't guess correctly, but we did start to take control of our own learning - we formed into groups, discussed ideas and acted independently without any guidance whatsoever, which is exactly what the tutor had been after. Obviously he already knew what the equipment did so he wasn't really looking for an answer, he just wanted to see us try to work it out ourselves!
OT, That tutor was from Germany where universities offer much less guidance to their science students. From the sound of it they pretty much just chuck some young people into a building with a library, internet access and a lab, give them a reading list and tell them who to ask if they get stuck.

All i am basically saying is that the way things are in my situation, it seems like its edging more towards an open university course, and if thats what i wanted to do i would have. its even getting to a point where we dont hand work in, we send it over the internet hence my comment that i feel we only pay for someone to write an essay question and then mark the essay.

The handing work in over the internet thing is their attempt to make things easier on their students! It will still be marked and dealt with as if you handed it in personally.

the fact we are in 2 days a week is fine, id rather i had 2 full days than the odd hour every day. however, courses in years gone by were completed quicker as things were more compact. even now my girlfriends course is 4 years normally but they have made it 3 years and she is in a lot.

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If the pace of the course seems too leisurely I'd suggest you talk to your tutor sharpish to find out what it is you're supposed to be doing. Different courses require different amounts of face-to-face teaching because they're trying to teach you different things! I knew students who did psychology and only had 4 hours a week lectures plus the odd tutorial while my lectures, tutorials and lab work kept me in 41/2 days a week. A friend of mine had lectures, tutorials and lab work from 9-7pm five days a week in her first two years - she was doing physics with French. But then, the psychology studnets did a lot more exploratory work and were expected to be very independent, whereas us science enthusiasts had a very close eye kept on us while we learned how not to kill ourselves in a laboratory environment.

No i am just saying everything seems to be leading towards more of an open university theme, in terms of contact time is minimal, aswell as guidance, and you then send them your work in. no i havent mentioned at any point about going to module leader etc as i came on here to get advice from other people, but rather i seem to be getting misunderstood and misquoted and hostile answers on the most part.

I don't know what course you are studying but i can only assume that it's for a field where you'd be expected to be relatively independent. Learning to be independent, to deal with your problems and to learn on your own is a vital part of your education, and this is what they are trying to teach you. They are not cutting back to save costs or mistreating their students because they can't be bothered, they are trying to teach you something important!

Im sorry i dont mean to offend with what i said but of my experience, the percentage of students on my course that know what they want in life/from the course and genuinely want to be there to learn is very small. and that goes for many of my friends who went to uni at 18, they did a course for the sake of doing it because they didnt know what they wanted to do and now...they are in a job nothing to do with what they studied.

I suppose this will vary depending on your course. I never met any of these people who didn't want to learn, although I did meet a few who thought that if they didn't learn it was the university's fault. I also knew several people who did the course for the sake of getting a degree - because they need any degree to do their chosen career (e.g. science writing/journalism, patent law etc) and they found this one interesting.
Saying you don't mean to offend is not an excuse for being offensive - I suspect the vaguely hostile tone of the responses (I didn't notice it, but you did) probably stems from your constant repetition of "I'm a mature student, not like all these youngsters who don't have a clue". I wouldn't count 22 as making you an especially mature studnet - there were people on my courses aged anything from 15 (one super-smart kid) to 45. Ages people seem to start uni (afaik): 18 straight from college, 19 having had a year out before or after college, 20 having had a year out before and after college, and your age having worked for a while. You're not that unusual, and not that much older than your coursemates.

Oldernotwiser

Lil_Me wrote: »

Forgive me for being nosey but from the OPs previous posts I gather they're doing some form of teaching degree. If correct it is quite concerning that they're only in for 2 days a week especially if they're working toward qualified teacher status. In my University ITT courses are almost always in a minimum of 3 days a week, average of around 10-15 hours a week when not on placement but peaks for special events.

In general they lose a lot of students because they don't realise the time commitment is so high. I do find it interesting to see the difference between 18 year olds and "mature" students expectations though.

The OP has said that s/he wants to be a teacher but that doesn't mean s/he's doing a teaching degree. It's highly likely that it's a subject degree, to be followed by a PGCE.

DrFluffy

When I did my first degree (mid 90's) we were told that the uni would provide us with the knowledge to get a 2.2 and the rest was up to us. They said we would need to read text books to get up to a 2.1 and read original research to bring us up to the level of a first... There was a lot of SDL involved if you wanted a good degree classification.

Are your expectations realistic, or is it really that bad? If it's the later then read the regs of your uni - they will tell you about your complaint proceedure.

vaporate

I will also state the obvious and say lectures are barely a 'guide' to get you started.

It's all about individual research, individual thought and being 'keen'.

atypical

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Now most of this would seem to me to be cause for complaint (apart from the last point) and to justify a comment about poor teaching!

I should complain about having so many hours of lectures too

Indie_Kid

Rosie75 wrote: »

I don't really understand what the problem is here. Why is it important to you to hand in an essay in person rather than online? Would that really make you feel that you are getting better "value for money"? The reason you're being asked to submit online, presumably, is so that essays can be run through plagiarism detection software.

In all the handbooks I've been given, it does say it being checked for plagiarism is pretty much why we have to sunmit it online. I've also been told we have to hand it in to the student office too.

in terms of contact time is minimal

But they have other students to teach. University isn't like school. You're expected to be independent.

melancholly

i would be amazed if lecturers don't offer 'office hours'. just a few hours a week when they are around to deal with student questions.

emailling for 'extra help' is always unlikely to get a response because lecturers have to be very careful to help each student equally, so individual tips should be avoided or other students who heard about it would complain!

i'm very confused about the idea that open university is a different model to a 'normal' university. i would never have thought that was the case. uni is about being guided in the right direction and then taking your own steps.

bestpud

How do you get on with your personal tutor, OP?

It's always a good idea to get to know them, and let them get to know you, as they will write your reference, but mine is always happy to discuss different topics with students if we make an appt to see him.

I have found him brilliant when I've had things going round in my head and need to make sense of it.

He doesn't offer help as such but he listens while I ramble on until I am eventually talking sense, but I do it myself iykwim! I find it helps sometimes to try and expain it to someone else and he is happy for me to do that.

He also points out different ways of working and has been invaluable to me in that sense.

He is happy to talk to any student in the department (he always says it is the students that make his job worthwhile and he will always find time for them, plus he is an Oxbridge grad and says he had loads of time talking with lecturers when he went and thinks it's the best way of learning), so it may be worth finding out if there is a gem like him in your department?

Other than that, as said, have you managed to set up a support network with fellow students? Maybe it would help to discuss assignments with others and help you feel less isolated? You sound quite disconnected from the uni and I guess that isn't helping you feel you are a 'proper' student?

olly300

furry_tractor wrote: »

Hi folks, in a bit of a pickle about my university course...
I returned to uni at 22 after working in manufacturing!took me a little longer to realise what i wanted to do in life.
It is a 3 year course and i am mid way through my second year but i am really not happy with the quality of the course or lecturers-i don't think a week has gone by without wondering what i am actually paying for.
The first year was a waste of time as it was nearly exactly what i did in A level (4 years earlier). This year I have found new students who joined the course directly into the second year, which knowing what i do now, i wouldn't hesitate to do.
The lecturers seem to take advantage of the 'independent learning' method. Lectures are bare bones at best and i have to say i have pretty much had to teach myself a lot of the course. Lecturers also are useless at helping when i am struggling, sometimes don't even reply to the emails.
I am only in 2 days a week, which i think is ridiculous for me, who has left a well paid job for this, it is only the thought of the job i am aiming for at the end that gets me through. This may sound amazing to 17-18 year olds who don't care but i am doing this for a challenge and to do something to be proud of but when i hopefully graduate i can't say that i will feel like ive really earnt what i've got....basically i genuinely don't know what i am paying for or if it is worth it.
I know this will sound ridiculous but like i say, i am doing this for different reasons than the usual 'got nothin else to do with my life' students.
I am wary of rocking the boat at uni, as i fear it could bite me in the backside by complaining but i have heard that quite a few people feel similarly and have complained.
any advice?
cheers

Yes because your complaint isn't constructive.

I am one of a few people who has complained while being a student at the quality of lecturing of one particular lecturer because they read straight from a text book and didn't address the room.

I expected from all my lectures was to be given a brief summary of the topic so I knew what to learn myself. Tutorials varied depending on the person taking them and the location. In tutorials you are expected to discuss specific problems if the tutor wants the tutorial to go in that way.

With this particular lecturer myself and others complained about we discovered he was in academia because of his lack of personal skills and while fine with small groups of people on specific in points i.e. he was fine in tutorials, he couldn't cope lecturing a whole room of 120 individuals.

Anyway to summarise what the others have said:
1. Make friends with students of all ages on your course. Don't presume just because someone is 18 they haven't come from a hard background. I shared a flat with someone who had been in the care system.

2. With these study friends you can swap notes and study together when required. That means if you miss lectures you have someone to copy notes from and vice versa. This people will also help you learn new things as they will indicate areas you have over looked and are useful when revising.

3. University is different from school you are expected to sort yourself out. Ok some people have had to do this already due to where they went to school but for most it's a complete shock. This means that if you want lecture notes or other things you first need to call on your support network of other students - you need to remember people know other people - and only then if everyone is stumped do you go to a tutor or course supervisor.

4.Due to only having to attend 2 full days a week you have plenty of time to get involved in other university activities as well as studying. Employers are not only looking at your academic record they are also looking at what other activities you do outside this due to the many facilities universities offer. They also expect you to take on some responsibility in one of these activities.

Oldernotwiser

melancholly wrote: »

i'm very confused about the idea that open university is a different model to a 'normal' university. i would never have thought that was the case. uni is about being guided in the right direction and then taking your own steps.

If anything, there's rather more spoon feeding on an OU degree (in the early stages) than there is on a degree at a bricks and mortar university.