My new neighbours have no right of way down my path.

Debt_Free_Chick

baabaachi wrote: »

My dad has asked me to ask this question.

My mum and dad live on the end house of a block of 4 terraced houses. At the side of his house there is a path that leads to his back door and then a bit further on there is a gate where their next door neighbours lives - you go through the gate to get to the neighbours back door.

If this is the only access that the neighbour has to their back door, I would be staggered if there was no access over your father's path. Are you sure it's "his" path and not shared?

What do the deeds to your father's house say?

If your father owns the path and the neighbour has no access, then the neighbour's back door is useless, surely?

The Victorians in particular were very savvy at making the right legal arrangements for this style of living. Check things out very carefully.

baabaachi

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

If this is the only access that the neighbour has to their back door, I would be staggered if there was no access over your father's path. Are you sure it's "his" path and not shared?

What do the deeds to your father's house say?

If your father owns the path and the neighbour has no access, then the neighbour's back door is useless, surely?

The Victorians in particular were very savvy at making the right legal arrangements for this style of living. Check things out very carefully.

The neighbours have their deeds which makes no mention of right of way or access etc. My parents have not got their deeds to hand - we have looked on the land registry site and it says they are unavailable (but we would try to get them of course if needed).

On the back of the houses my parents have knocked down their wall and put a car port there - this leads straight out to a public pathway - I aassume there used to be a gate in the wall allowing access from the back door through the garden to the back gate/wall and then out to the public pathway - the neighbours have theirs all bricked up so it is a complete wall meaning there is no access through their back garden.

Alex_LS

Aha! So they've blocked up their own access. That's pretty much that then.

blckbrd

OP is the path at the side of your father's house accessible from the public highway and is it definitely his?

From what you describe, a Coronation Street type set-up comes to mind. It sounds as if the path may have been continuous until the rear wall was removed and the car port erected. It seems a bit odd to make a path, put access in each garden wall (or is this new) but not make it a right of way. Hope your dad hasn't put the car port over land he may not own.

The plans, when you get them, will show exactly who owns what.

baabaachi

No, not like Coronation street with back yard, then back gate and shared path.

Say you are looking at my parent's house from public pavement to the right of their house - the bricks of their house are the left side of the entry way and next doors (not the ones needing access) house bricks form the right side of the entry way (a gap making my parent's house the end of terrace). You go down the entry, then look to the left and my parent's kitchen window can be seen with their back door to the side, there is a yard, carry on about 6-10 feet in front of you is the rest of my parent's garden (car port - all in their own garden), wall knocked down for car entry/exit. Turn left and you come to next door's garden - fence and gate.

olly300

Do the other neighbours (the ones not signing the affidavit) have a right off way onto a similar/the same path? Or any other entrances to get to their back yards without going through their houses?

If you can work out what access others have to the back of their terrace houses then it can give you an indication whether someone who lived next door before all concerned lived their blocked their own entrance or not.

Obviously the plans and deeds would help a lot but if they reveal nothing this would help you argue that the neighbours have no right off way onto the property.

You really do want this sorted out before new people move in i.e. you need to inform both the neighbours in writing, and their solicitor the neighbours have no right off way. Also making it clear they were only allowed to use it to empty their bins once a week and allow the window cleaner through or whatever. As simply locking the gate when new people move in could cause a major dispute with threats, gate lock being broken, gate being broken etc.

DVardysShadow

olly300 wrote: »

You really do want this sorted out before new people move in i.e. you need to inform both the neighbours in writing, and their solicitor the neighbours have no right off way. Also making it clear they were only allowed to use it to empty their bins once a week and allow the window cleaner through or whatever. As simply locking the gate when new people move in could cause a major dispute with threats, gate lock being broken, gate being broken etc.

Agree. Could write to the old neighbours - particularly if contracts not exchanged. This will then have to be declared to the buyer. If it is not declared, buyer has comeback on seller. But the down side is it might devalue neighbours property and ultimately open it up for sale to an even less desirable neighbour.

baabaachi

Mmm, interesting points. Will get my parents to ask about the neighbours on the other side and see if they have similar ROW in their block. My parents house and the next door (who are selling) would be the only ones who would need to use the path that runs right by my parent's window.

G_M

The answer lies in the deeds.

we have looked on the land registry site and it says they are unavailable (but we would try to get them of course if needed).

I assume this means the property is not registered, which means it has not changed owners since complusory registration.

The deeds will be held either by the mortgagee (if there is one), or the owner himself, or his solicitor.

sparklymessygirl

I have to agree with Princeof pounds - sometimes the full picture does not lie with information in the deeds because of the principle of long use without permission establishing property rights against the owner. However, permissions can be withdrawn and are personal rights not property rights (i.e. do not pass on to the new occupiers). I am not very spacially aware so I struggle with getting a handle on the layout etc you have described (my fault not your fault in describing it, I hasten to add!).

Your parents' options are to consult a solicitor or to stop access and see what happens. I have been on the receiving end of the latter course of action and I sued the person refusing access and I won as my property had acquired an easement by long use. The course of action was confrontational and we have no relationship with the neighbour making future joint concerns terribly difficult. The advantage to the latter option is that it puts the onus on the new neighbours to assert on what basis they have the right to use this path. This option may not cost your parents as much money, IMO. IF they choose this latter option then please advise them to keep the lines of communication with the neighbours open (saves money).

If your parents consult a solicitor, in order to save time and therefore money, your parents would need to go armed with :
copies of the deeds to both properties
information as to who has been owning/occupying both properties in the past - go back at least 20 years - much more if you can
Have your parents ever given permission to these or earlier neighbours?
When did the neighbour's wall get bricked up?
Before your parents bought the house was the pathway used by the neighbours in the other house? and if so, on what basis? i.e. permission being given or just because they assumed they could?
This is quite a complex area of law so choose your solicitor carefully - it is a false economy to choose someone who is not a specialist in these matters.

Sparkly