US Visa

crandy07

Hello!

I am going to Canada on a student visa next year, and I am planning to fly to New York then get the Greyhound up to Toronto to save money. I just realised that I am going to be in Canada for 4 months, 1 month longer than the 90 days allowed by the US visa waiver thing. When I've done that trip before no one took my departure card and for all they knew I never left America, but how does it work this time as my return flight is not until 4 months after I get to America... will they let me in?

Thanks!

Kenny_Powers_3

If you never handed your green form in you should contact the US embassy asap. You will have major problems when trying to enter the USA if you just tip up.

In terms of your Visa, once you leave the US your waiver comes to an end and you are free to re enter under a new Visa.
If you mean about your student Visa - Then once it runs out you will then have enter the US under the VWP. Assuming you meet the criteria there should be no problem.

But you need to sort your departure card out as a matter of urgency - Usually all you will need is your Flight details for your departure journey.

crandy07

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Last time I did that trip I went over the border to Canada on the Greyhound no-one from US immigration asked for my departure card, and then when I crossed back over the border the immigration person just found the stamp from when I entered New York by plane and then let me through. My departure card was then taken off me when I flew back to the UK.

My worry is that this time my departure and return flight to New York are four months apart, so would be longer than the 90 days allowed (even though I would only be in the USA for a few hours before getting on my bus). As I've heard of people being not allowed to travel, not allowed in the country etc., is a bus ticket enough proof to show that you won't stay in America for over the visa allows, even if no-one at the Canadian border seemed to want to take my departure card off me before?

Hope that makes sense

Kenny_Powers_3

crandy07 wrote: »

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Last time I did that trip I went over the border to Canada on the Greyhound no-one from US immigration asked for my departure card, and then when I crossed back over the border the immigration person just found the stamp from when I entered New York by plane and then let me through. My departure card was then taken off me when I flew back to the UK.

My worry is that this time my departure and return flight to New York are four months apart, so would be longer than the 90 days allowed (even though I would only be in the USA for a few hours before getting on my bus). As I've heard of people being not allowed to travel, not allowed in the country etc., is a bus ticket enough proof to show that you won't stay in America for over the visa allows, even if no-one at the Canadian border seemed to want to take my departure card off me before?

Hope that makes sense

Right i see.

Im inclined to think that since you have a Canadian Student Visa when you first arrive in the US you will arrive under the US VWP and when you leave that will expire. Then when you re enter the US you will enter on an entirely new Visa under the US VWP.

In fact im pretty certain on that one.

PolishBigSpender

Why would the USA care that you're in Canada for 4 months?

All they care about is that you enter and leave the country within 90 days. If you enter for a few days, leave, then come back a few months later and leave again - why would they be bothered?

As you might be aware, the USA doesn't have any juristriction over Canada!

It's also wrong to say that you get a 'visa' when you enter the USA under the Visa Waiver scheme. You get permission to stay for 90 days - which is not the same thing as a visa and should not be seen that way.

Don't worry about not handing in forms/etc on previous visits - the USA is well aware that the old system was terribly unreliable for actually keeping track of people.

Kenny_Powers_3

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

Why would the USA care that you're in Canada for 4 months?

All they care about is that you enter and leave the country within 90 days. If you enter for a few days, leave, then come back a few months later and leave again - why would they be bothered?

Exactly. So the OP would enter under the VWP, then leave. Then re enter under the VWP again.

dzug1

I'm afraid most of the above postings are wrong. Well just about all of them where they misunderstand the VWP rules.

You will not be allowed into the US under the VWP unless you have a ticket leaving the North American continent (which includes Mexico, Canada and most Caribbean islands) within 90 days of arrival.

They do very much care about you going to Canada and returning so that your total stay in North America is more than 90 days - and they don't like it.

Transit under the Visa Waiver Program

Travelers who qualify for visa free travel under the Visa Waiver Program are eligible to transit the United States. If transiting the United States to a destination in Canada, Mexico or the adjacent islands, the traveler may re-enter the United States on the return journey using any mode of transport, as long as the total visit, including both periods of time spent in transit and in Canada, Mexico or the adjacent islands, does not exceed 90 days.

Travelers transiting the United States to take up residence in Mexico, Canada, Bermuda or the Caribbean Islands must be legal permanent residents of these areas.

The bottom line is you will need a proper visa for the US. Or fly direct to Canada

PolishBigSpender

dzug1 wrote: »

I'm afraid most of the above postings are wrong. Well just about all of them where they misunderstand the VWP rules.

You will not be allowed into the US under the VWP unless you have a ticket leaving the North American continent (which includes Mexico, Canada and most Caribbean islands) within 90 days of arrival.

They do very much care about you going to Canada and returning so that your total stay in North America is more than 90 days - and they don't like it.

Transit under the Visa Waiver Program

Travelers who qualify for visa free travel under the Visa Waiver Program are eligible to transit the United States. If transiting the United States to a destination in Canada, Mexico or the adjacent islands, the traveler may re-enter the United States on the return journey using any mode of transport, as long as the total visit, including both periods of time spent in transit and in Canada, Mexico or the adjacent islands, does not exceed 90 days.

Travelers transiting the United States to take up residence in Mexico, Canada, Bermuda or the Caribbean Islands must be legal permanent residents of these areas.

The bottom line is you will need a proper visa for the US. Or fly direct to Canada

That's an eye opener, and I'll hold my hands up and admit that I was wrong! It certainly defies all logic, doesn't it?

You would think that America would be happy to have people transitting the country - although this is the same country that requires visas for non-VWP nationals to simply transit the country, even when you stay airside, so who knows?

And yet Americans complain when they're deported from the Schengen zone for abusing the regulations?

PolishBigSpender

I suspect common sense will prevail - if you have clear evidence of what you're planning to do and tell them so (and show them so!) - showing that you don't plan to fool about in the USA and that you're merely heading up to Canada to study. As far as I've heard and seen, US immigration officers are very tough, but fair - if your paperwork is in order, they won't give you a hard time. But in this case, I recommend having all the documentation available, including a letter confirming that you have to come back to study, proof of financial means, booked travel tickets, etc.

It's far more painless to fly straight to Canada though. I wouldn't risk the hassle - the evidence is terribly contradictive and it's not worth a ban from the VWP if you are caught out.

I wonder WHY the United States doesn't allow the VWP to be used as a transit pass, though?

PolishBigSpender

dinkydog wrote: »

You can see the point of trying to stop the VWP resetters from spending a day in Canada, then returning on a new VWP entry though.

But this could be stopped quite easily by introducing a 90/180 rule like Schengen and many other countries have. In fact, I'm suprised this isn't actually the ruling - it would bring the US into line with the Schengen zone!

However, what actual control the US has over Canada is beyond me, and what information is passed between canada and US regarding flights from Canada to the rest of the world is also unknown by me.

They don't have any control - what they have control over is access to the United States. Hence - if you don't comply with the VWP, re-entry to the USA can be denied. I'm not sure I follow American logic here - but their transit regulations tend to be somewhat inane compared to most of the world.

Then again, American visas are a sore point for many Polish people.

crandy07

Hi everyone

Thanks for your responses, I've already booked my flights a few days ago, and they cost £150 to cancel them now.

I assume that even if I flew to Toronto from New York I would have the same problem? So much for trying to save money :rolleyes:

Thanks again