New Consumer Unit

baldelectrician

just a new note,

Went to a house this week to carry out a periodic inspection.

The consumer unit was changed last month by a registered contractor (whilst doing his kitchen electrical work).
No main bonding No RCD on half the consumer unit.

The guy was mighty peeved and took the huff a bit (at the other conrtractor).

No smoke detectors either.

The guy was quite a pleasant chap (bearing in mind I was giving him bad news)

justjohn

I am really sorry but the building trade gets rite on my goat 20-35 pound an hour. Yes you have overheads yes you had too train for the job. BIG DEAL

Try working a full week at normal hours. There are some good peeps out there in the trade. And just because they charge a reasonable amount for a job does not mean they are cowboys.

You 20-35 pound an hour guys stop bleeting and either compete or get out of the game. You have had it good for years and i hope now that the recession is here you all hurt bad.

poorlywallet

Hi John,

I hope i didn't sound as though i was bleating. More just rying to offer sound reason and explaination as to the costs which haven't been accounted for when i read statments like 'the bit cost £100, why is he charging £500 for it, rip off!'

Everybody has the basic right to look for VFM, but 'cheapest=best' is not true in this case.

BTW, As a service engineer for industrial machinery for many years, i was averaging 55hrs/week,(sometimes 70+), stuck in hotels/airports etc. The money was good, but life was not my own. I have good experience of making sacrifices, lots of grafting and was never scared of it, but it doesn't allow for nice things like a social life, hobbies etc. you are a slave to the job.
In my first year of trading as a spark, i earnt approx 22% of what i was taking home when employed. Not complaining, as my work/life balance is far far better as i have some control over it, but it really takes someone who has worked as both employed and self employed to truely understand what the differences are.

The old saying of 'pay peanuts, get .....' is very true in most cases. Would you let a monkey install something which could cause shocks or fire in your home?

justjohn

poorlywallet.... No I didn't think you were bleating.

The point I am trying to make is things change ...times move on. Trades that once were lucrative no longer are and you have to adapt. I was into computer repairs when computers first started to take off and everyone was scared of them and that was good money then - but isn't now!

We are in a recession and everyone is competing. Supermarkets have had to slash prices to get a larger market share of the shoppers...it doesn't mean the items they are selling now are worse than the ones they were selling last year (in most cases they are the same item).

All I am saying is fair play to the sparky, plumber etc that cuts his hourly rate to either get a larger share of the jobs or perhaps to encourage someone to get work done that they thought they couldn't afford. That is someone who is watching their overheads, working hard and smart and in no way makes them a cowboy.

They deserve to get the job over someone who 'won't get out of bed for less than £30 an hour' - and I have had that said to me by some tradesmen!

If I have a job that needs to be done and I can only afford £x then what is the problem with me employing some one is is willing to do it for £x. The alternative is me not getting the work done and someone who was prepared to work for say £10 an hour not getting a job and claiming benefits!

I have been employed and self employed so have experience of both.

There is nothing wrong with a tradesmen who will work for £10 an hour - just because they have reduced their overheads doesn't mean they are cowboys!

baldelectrician

On £35 per hour I end up with £12 per hour after business costs.
I would be better paid if I worked for another company and did 35 hours basic per week, then I wouldn't be up till late in the evening writing invoices.
I also wouldn't be able to choose who I work for.

£10 per hour either means you (as a spark) aren't trained properly (as the JIB rate is £12.10 / employer cost £15.45).
I have done other jobs, but essentially you make your chioce about who you use as a person ordering the works.

You can't reduce your overheads to a less than actual (realistic) cost level unless something gives (quality / insuance / cheap and incorrect materials)

justjohn

#26

I assume that you are not including the cost of materials as 'building costs' as presumably your customer pays for those on top of your £35p.h charge. Therefore if we assume you work for 6 hours a day, 4 days a week 46 weeks of the year and are only taking home £12 per hour from a £35 ph charge then your overheads are £138 per day! or £552 per week! or a staggering £25K+ per year.

Now if they are your overheads then who am I to argue but lets just say there is a sparky with the same overheads that is happy to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and only take two weeks hols a year then he could feasibly cover those overheads by charging less. This doesn't make him a cowboy. What if there is an electrician that doesn't have anywhere near those overheads - perhaps he goes to jobs in an 8 year old Mondeo rather than getting a new Merc van every year. He could conceivably do the same job much cheaper than you or the guy I just mentioned. This doesn't make him a cowboy either!

I would suggest that a lot of Tradesmen charge a high hourly rate to subsidise them for the times they are not working as they are not fully booked.

I have a sparky that is fully qualified, has been in the trade for 30+ years and is what I call 'old school' in terms of time keeping, quality of work and reiability. He is ALWAYS fully booked to the extent that I have had to wait 6 weeks before now for him to do a job. He charges approx £12p.h and I have never had a problem with his work. He did a full rewire (inc smoke alarms etc...) in a 3 bed house and adjoining shop complete with all materials for £1800 + vat

justjohn

poorlywallet wrote: »

Hi John,

...... but it really takes someone who has worked as both employed and self employed to truely understand what the differences are.

QUOTE]


I have been employed for 12 years and self employed for 8 years

My partner has been employed for 20 years and self employed for 3 years so we both have experience of both sides

baldelectrician

justjohn wrote: »

#26

I assume that you are not including the cost of materials as 'building costs' as presumably your customer pays for those on top of your £35p.h charge. Therefore if we assume you work for 6 hours a day, 4 days a week 46 weeks of the year and are only taking home £12 per hour from a £35 ph charge then your overheads are £138 per day! or £552 per week! or a staggering £25K+ per year.

Now if they are your overheads then who am I to argue but lets just say there is a sparky with the same overheads that is happy to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and only take two weeks hols a year then he could feasibly cover those overheads by charging less. This doesn't make him a cowboy. What if there is an electrician that doesn't have anywhere near those overheads - perhaps he goes to jobs in an 8 year old Mondeo rather than getting a new Merc van every year. He could conceivably do the same job much cheaper than you or the guy I just mentioned. This doesn't make him a cowboy either!

I would suggest that a lot of Tradesmen charge a high hourly rate to subsidise them for the times they are not working as they are not fully booked.

I have a sparky that is fully qualified, has been in the trade for 30+ years and is what I call 'old school' in terms of time keeping, quality of work and reiability. He is ALWAYS fully booked to the extent that I have had to wait 6 weeks before now for him to do a job. He charges approx £12p.h and I have never had a problem with his work. He did a full rewire (inc smoke alarms etc...) in a 3 bed house and adjoining shop complete with all materials for £1800 + vat

Hi Thanks foir not looking at my website prior to posting
My rate includes apprentice wages, and does not include running between wholesalers, organising materials sitting doing paperwork at night or all that stuff
So to sum up I may actually 'work' 50-70 hours per week, but I can only realisitcally charge 3-4 hours per day on average.
A prime example ; last week I was to start a rewire on a conversion house- booked in 3 whole days to thrash most of it out. Found out joiner had flu previous week and was now a week behind.
Total chargable hours in these 3 days ?
5 hours

I have a lot of gear (wall chasers, core cutter, PAT tester, Test Equpment) it doesn't grow on trees, but it saves a lot of time on jobs- my wall chaser and wall raggling gear saves at least a day on a rewire. It also makes the customer happy as there are small neat clean channels where the plasterer can cover it easily. It costs me more to provide a better service, but both me and the client benefit. I save time, the client has less disturbance.

Now thanks again for not looking at my previous posts- You refer to your mate doing a rewire for £1800 + vat
Now full rewire 3 bed house = 4 days = 32 hours
Your mates rate ?
£1800- £500 (materials) = £1300
£1300 / 32 hours = £40.62 per hour :T
( I did not include VAT inb the calculation as I don't charge VAT. I like to compare like with like)
Had I included VAT your £12 per hour spark now gets £46.72 per hour )

PS You forgot to mention if your spark is 'registered' as this adds about £1200-£2000 per year. Is he?
I was NICEIC and SELECT (ECA in Scotland), but now only SELECT as they are more relevant in Scotland.
The Equivalent of my registration down south is Full scope NICEIC or ECA (not just domestic installer, as my registration allows me to work in non-domestic settings)


Kind regards

justjohn

Hi baldelectrician

I do not need to justify myself but seeing as you have had a dig at me for not reading your posts or looking at your website....it would have helped if you had read mine properly too :rolleyes:

It was not JUST a 3 bed house it also had an adjoining shop. The house is 200+ years old and the walls are solid stone 18"-24" thick. The wiring was fully replaced as the existing wiring dated back to pre 1950 and in most rooms you only had one skirting board mounted socket (some rooms didn't even have that!). He wired two seperate circuits (two seperate consumer units) - one for the house and one for the shop. A lot of the downstair rooms had wood pannelling and he removed all that to run his wires behind before replacing it all. The upstairs had afloating floor throughout and he lifted that and the floor boards under to run his wiring. Furthermore he actually returned to the job after we had gas central heating installed to wire in the new boiler (at no extra charge)

He works alone (apart from an arthritic dog!) and it took him over 6 days.

He is fully registered and has left us with an electrical safety certificate and a landlords certificate (at no extra charge).

More importantly - He is NOT my mate!! He was a highly recommended Electrician - I do not get mates rates, this is his standard charge. When I was getting quotes they ranged from this £1800 to over £4000!! To me the ones charging £4K+ are the cowboys. I assume from your little calculation 'proving' he was on £40.p.h you are trying to say that I paid the going rate?

What would you charge for a full rewire of a large 3 bed house and an adjoining shop over two levels with the problems previously mentioned.

My 'beef' is not with you - I have looked at your website and you do not seem particularly over priced (your landlord cert start at £50 - I have been quoted anything from £50 to £200 for this in the past)

My 'problem' is with the people that seem to believe that if you want a good job you have to pay premium prices or else you just get a 'monkey' or 'cowboy'. This simply is not true.

justjohn

And dont get me started on plumbers LOL