Upgrade plans scuppered .... AMD AM2 Released tomorrow????

jpe20

I have just found out (by looking at the scan.co and overclockers websites) that AMD are releasing a new range of processors tomorrow. These a AM2 socket CPUs offering mainly DDR2 support. So thats my upgrade plans on hold at the very least or probably scrapped!!!!!!!

I have already purchased case,psu, hard drives and dvd writer.

Yet to purchase GFX cards (decided on 2xASUS 7900GT Top cards at 217quid each), motherboard ?? (Was ASUS A8N32 SLi Deluxe at 132quid), CPU (AMD x2 core 64 4400+ at 305quid) and Memory (was some PC4000 memory by OCZ at 180quid).

It seems that these CPUs will be on release tomorrow giving me a headache .... seems really expensive for the memory ... only candidate seems to be Corsair 2GB PC2-8500 XMS2 Ram coming in at a pocket busting 350quid (170quid more than my PC4000)!!!!!! It does not stop there .... it's an extra 33quid for the 4400+ x2core AM2 socket CPU and an extra 26quid for the mother board (ASUS M2N32 SLi Deluxe 158quid). All in all and extra 229quid!!!!!!!!! Its that DDR2 memory .... but I want something overclockable hence PC8500 as opposed to PC6400 RAM. PC6400 (would a presume match the CPU default FSB (not confirmed) of 800MHz. I don't know whats going on with FSB and DDR2 on this new AM2 setup????..... I assume default FSB is 200 and x4 for DDR2 rates??????

So is the extra 229 quid going to worth the potential gain from PC4000 RAM bandwidth to PC8500 RAM Bandwidth??? I am not expecting to actually get to PC8500 speeds via overclocking but somewhere close I hope. Better than frying up PC6400 RAM !!!!!

Any tips on prices and the above possible system config appreciated.

Jules

PS What swayed me in my choice of 7900GT over 7900GTX cards was that the 7900GT seems to be an excellent performer in game benchmarks like Quake 4 etc being almost on par with the GTX model. In the benchmark test 3dMark06 (relavance of this benchmark is debatable but I need some reference point!!!!) the GTX model seems to get around 6000 and the GT model is usually 10% behind at around 5400. This 10% difference does not appear to apply to the gaming benchmarks from what I have read.

So in conclusion the card I have chosen ASUS 7900GT TOP model (Overclocked) at 217 a card is going to be very close in performance to the GTX card which comes in at around 370quid. So the price difference was unjustifiable in my book. You seemed to be paying an awful lot more ie 70% or so for an extra 10% of performance. 2card to run in SLi mode .... Only get an SLi config if you are really into your high quality gaming.... Gains to be had are from 5% - nearly 100% ..... Highly depending on res / AA + AF settings. Also seems to be an anomally with AA,AF settings and HDR rendering .... maybe fixable in a driver update I hope!!!!

banger9365

if you keep on waiting you will do nothing there is aways some thing new out or just round the corner ..
get the best for your pocket not the newest they alway have problems with it at first..
go for the AMD x2 core 64 4200+ cheeper and almost the time -512KB L2 Caches you will not notice a big differance with that

jpe20

Banger .... maybe you're right .... just that hearing the new batch of AMD's were about to be released today/tomorrow has just made me pause for thought .... usually I would agree with you but alot of Overclockers Forums have been banging on about waiting for the AM2 or (DDR2 capability really!!) to be released!!!

Just seems a major architecture revision to me from DDR1 - DDR2 and the fact that ASUS have released a board for it too (they don't seem to muck around to me!!). Unless people have horror stories or putting it less dramatically opinions against this new setup like you then I would like to hear them. DDR2 has been on the cards for ages so I am sure that AMD/ASUS would not mess it up ... would they???....

Anyhow still not yet decided ... I nearly ordered my "DDR 1" setup/rig this week but I may wait till the end of this week or next to see the fallout!!!! The "DDR 1" setup may still be on the cards but if more manufacturers release PC8000 memory over the next 2 weeks at a more reasonable price then I will go for the "DDR 2" setup.

Otherwise I may read/find out about the "true" benifit of DDR2 on AMD AM2 systems. Just that from what I have read that the Pentium rigs running DDR2 have not been that successful (might of been reading too many amd orientated sites) and regarded as nice but very very pricey!!!!

Anyhow views appreciated .....
Jules

Xio_2

Don't bother with AM2, its just a revision to the 939 base to implement DDR2. There is absolutely no performance increase you can get from such an insignificant change that warrants the huge extra cost involved - not to mention the hassle of waiting for new revisions of compatible hardware (current chipset/motherboard support is not too good) and the fact that you can get an equally high performing PC for much less by sticking with 939 X2's.

If you want to be on the cutting edge, wait for something thats looking promising like Intels new Conroe, or AMD's follow up socket - but as banger9365 said, you can end up waiting forever...

Also, regarding your graphics card choice - what screen will you be using and what resolution will you be running at? Did you consider ATI X1900XT - its an excellent performer - often outclassing the 7900. Also worth bearing in mind that SLI or Crossfire is overkill for anything less than uber high res gaming because even then you will be CPU bottlenecked. Good choice of CPU btw

jpe20

Just to let you guys know I am not much of a waiter. A week or 2 at the most. Possibly I may wait until the few die hard post their 3dMark06 results or similar game benchmarks on FutureMarks forums and then we can see the true colours of DDR2.

I know you can wait forever anticpating new tech but a few days maybe worth it in this case. I thought AM2 revision was more towards an Xmas release and I was surprised to find it and optional buy item on the scan website today!!!

Besides I only decided for definite on my GFX card setup yesterday!!!!!!! It's now down to the mobo, cpu and memory.

I am after some degree of future "proofing"!!! .... ie I would like to do a meaningful (ie 100-200% increase in performance in 2yrs time) upgrade to my system.

Just that with my current system I bought 3yrs ago I have found that I can only upgrade Athlon32 3000+ -> 3200+ and the memory I could only increase PC3200 -> 1GB-2GB.

Going the AM2 route ...... maybe 2-3yrs time I can do a cheapish upgrade. Ie 4400->8000?????? and Memory well I can go to 16GB????

I know you can spend/waste alot of money future proofing as well. Is it best to upgrade on the cusp of a revision change/ update in amd/intel release?

Jules

Sorry for the rambling ... beer has gone to my fingers!

jpe20

Hang on .... 100-200% in 2-3years???..... that's defeating Moores Law ain't it!!!!!!

Okay something that beats my current situation of originally owning AMD 3000+ .. only can upgrade to 3200+ (32bit BARTON). [Less that 10%!!!!!!] and memory originall owning PC3200 1.5GB to upgrading max 4GB at cost of throwing the original RAM away!

Maybe a 50-100% increase is more modest and more realistic!!!!

Jules

PS>= Does anyone in here understand or know a link that explains clearly RAM latency and timings like 3-2-2-T1 etc!!!! .... Just that I am at a complete lost as to how this influences the overall memory performance. All I know PC8500 good .. very good and PC2700 not too good. Also I know that (maybe!!!) that PC8500 is a memory bandwidth of 8.5GB per/s and PC4000 is 4GB per/s. If I am wrong then correct me QUICKLY (I do not like to look daft for long!). Latencies ...... 3-2-2 business ?????????? No idea

All I know is 5-5-5-1T might be very good....!!!????

Jules

jamesd

Buying a new board and new CPU today will expose you to all the new bugs they have in the chips and board. It'll probably take 3-6 months to clear the worst of them up, 9 months to get it really clean.

Best timing may be to wait a couple of weeks for the availability of the new chips to affect the price of the old ones and go for the old ones. Unless you want some capability only offered by the new ones, like possibly better virtual machine software support - that's one thing which would cause me to get one of the new ones.

wolfman

banger9365 wrote:

if you keep on waiting you will do nothing there is aways some thing new out or just round the corner ..
get the best for your pocket not the newest they alway have problems with it at first..
go for the AMD x2 core 64 4200+ cheeper and almost the time -512KB L2 Caches you will not notice a big differance with that

I partly agree there. The trick is to buy at the perfect time. I got my AMD64 3500+ over a year ago for a good price, it's only lost £30 in value.

With regards to the situation though, it may worth waiting, not so much for the new technology, but to see if it'll cause any prices drops. Having said that prices drops may take a week or two (or three) to filter through to the vendors. Personally, I'd go ahead and buy now, otherwise everything else you've bought will be sat redundant.

The AM2 platform only gives a very minimal performance increase from any of the benchmark results I've seen. Toms hardware gives a good review:
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/02/21/a_look_at_amds_socket_am2_platform_uk/index.html