Music downloads, how legal is legal enough?

bs7

sra wrote:

Two new developments:

International Federation of the Phonographic Industry Statement

AllofMp3.com Statement

I'm sure Allofmp3.com will eventually disappear, however, you've got to give it to them for not giving in just yet.

And they do have a point - who are we ('the West') to force our politics and economics onto them. Just as we wouldn't consider telling the Dutch that we're going to take them all to court because canabis is illegal here, the IFPI, BPI, RIAA etc cannot constantly complain where it seems (in the absence of any court decision) that they are legitimately operating within the scope of Russian laws.

David_Batty

When the site gets sued then they will easily be able to pay the fine by dividing the cost amongst all those credit card details they hold on file !

nej

The card transactions are handled by a separate company, so they don't hold them on file.

As for being sued by the BPI, I can imagine the court case going something like this:

Judge: Ok next case, the BPI vs the Russian website AllOfMP3.Com.
Prosecutor: Yes, we alledge that AllOfMP3.com is illegal.
Judge: What do you say to that, AllofMp3.com? AllOfMp3.com? Hmm, they don't appear to have shown up. Well, as they are in Russia and nowhere near our jurisdiction, case dismissed!

Slothy

There are people posting on this thread that £6 for a CD is terrific value for money. I recently read a newspaper article that claimed that since Pink's latest single is 87p, but her entire album from allofmp3.com is a pound, the donwload must be illegal.

These arguments disgust me. I frequently visit parts of the world where a legit CD, in a jewel case with booklet, purchased from a decent shop, costs in the region of 3-4 quid. Oh, these must be also be illegal then? After all, it's cheap. CDs in Russia cost a couple of quid. A download for them is a saving of 50-70%. Considering the incredible overhead that must exist in running record shops, CD manufacturing and distribution, I think that kind of saving is pretty much on target from what I would expect when I download my music.

Furthermore, if I were to download a "legal" music track from a popular online music store that employs DRM, and suddenly much computer breaks (or, as a software developer, I re-install my operating system, something I do roughly every 3 months), and oops, I can suddenly no longer play any of the music I paid so much for. It is actions like that that should be illegal.

Finally, should it really be the consumers responsibility to decided whether an online store is legit? What makes you so sure that Amazon is legal? Or CD-WOW? I mean, they're pretty cheap too.

Let the courts decide. If they decide this shop is illegal, it will be closed down. Until then, should we not believe in innocent until proven guilty?

Slothy

David_Batty wrote:

When the site gets sued then they will easily be able to pay the fine by dividing the cost amongst all those credit card details they hold on file !

A tip: as I'm with Cahoot, I use their webcard to generate a short-term credit card number with a very low limit (£10 when adding $10 to my allofmp3.com account)... These were accepted without any problem. Good luck to them getting much more money out of those cards!

Bernard_Coleslaw

nej wrote:

The card transactions are handled by a separate company, so they don't hold them on file.

And even if they do get cardholder details from the separate company (based in the Netherlands, I think) all that would say was "Mr X. paid us $10 on such-and-such a date" - which in itself is completely legal.

What they wouldn't know was whether Mr X. had ever actually downloaded anything from allofMP3 itself. Which, being based in Russia, is probably not party to the same data-sharing obligations that a site based in an EU state would be.

sjb92

This is an interesting thread.

I had read about this site on the weekly e-mail a few weeks ago but didn't look at it at the time. However, this morning I've spent three hours trying to work out how to copy a single track off a DRM protected CD that I bought last year. I don't plan to share the track, but I do want it on my MP3 player so that I can listen to it when I'm out jogging. It's a track by a well known band whom I saw live in concert last year. I've bought other CDs by them in the past and will - if they continue to produce decent music - probably buy their stuff in the future.

I can't see how making one copy for personal use is not fair use. And given that they won't let me do this, I'm not going to shell out 80p to do so, so I've paid 10 cents to this site instead. Quite simply I'm not going to pay twice for their music.

In many ways this reminds me of how we used to pay more for cars in this country and then more and more people started importing them from the continent despite the efforts of the motor industry; eventually car prices fell so that this wasn't worthwhile. Car companies still earn enough to carry out R&D and produce new cars. I expect the same will happen in the music industry and that there will always be a space for new music.

On a related point, I've bought tickets for a gig this summer from one of the support acts who were selling them through Ebay. They included a copy of their latest CD. I've never heard of them before but will listen to the CD as I'm interested in new music. If it's good then I'll make the effort to turn up early and see them... if they're also good live then if/when they play somewhere near me then I'll go and see them and they'll make money, and I'll mention them to my friends, and hopefully they'll do well. My point is that the fact that I'm not paying twice for a song by a major group will not impact on the success of the next generation of bands. Talent will.

adm_4

Article in today's Observer about AllofMP3. Quotes BPI as follows, "We are going to sue AllofMP3.com in the UK courts. We are going to seek a judgement not against the users of the site but the site itself." Adding "AllofMP3.com is illegal under UK law and it is illegal to download from it."
Ends with "The BPI also announced last week that it would not prosecute people who fill their iPods with music from CDs they have bought."
It has occured to me that it would be difficult to fill an mp3 player without doing the above because legitimate mp3s are not so easily available.
It is hard to believe the first spin when they come out with the second.

7th_Song

I first heard of this site from a reasonably well-known, much recorded, professional musician. I was at the gig because I had downloaded free tracks from a recording company site, I have since bought several cds.

Check out the Janis Ian website to see the beneficial effects of making music available free, especially artists who are not on the corporation moneygrubber pap list.

Mp3 is not up to the quality of cd, cheap downloads, freebies and podcasting have probably resulted in as many gained sales as lost. As for the "legal" sites, a blatant ripoff, made worse by different prices in different countries.

yeslek

thing is, us brits are getting ripped off for downloads anyways.
79p we pay, USA pay $0.99 = about 50p

why should we have to pay 30p when the usa doesnt!!
until the prices are lowered i'm all for these russian sites