Music downloads, how legal is legal enough?

regvardy

this is why Allofmp3 is doing a roaring trade.

this is why such a site is being discussed openly on Moneysavingexpert.

who exactly are the crooks?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5041684.stm

pentop

billshep wrote:

Is that true? Is it not covered under the same law that allows you to make backups? In my opinion, as long as you still own the original CD, you aren't really depriving the artist of royalties - why should pay twice for the same thing?

Yes it is true, Under UK law, strictly speaking it is unlawful to make copies of a CD you own, even for your own use. It is illegal to copy a CD to a tape for use in the car; and generally speaking, it is illegal to make MP3s out of a CD you own, to listen to on your MP3 player. However, no one has ever been charged with these "offences", as far as I know.

In America, they have the concept of "Fair Use", which allows you to do these things with a CD you have bought.

Unfortunately, opinions and what seems "fair" to us is not always the same as the legal position...

adm_4

But is not taping/recording tv and radio also not strictly illegal?
As someone mentioned above I think a real problem with itunes is the price particularly of old stuff. Old CDs get sold at reduced price or even in budget compilations. You can get a 20 track compilation CD of say The Hollies for £4 from HMV - that's 20p per track!

Sazbo

Here's a story in today's Guardian about AllOfMP3.com which, it claims, "poses as a legitimate online store but actually sells pirated recordings."

It seems as though it's a claim being made by the British music industry - perhaps not surprising...

What do you guys reckon about this?

bs7

Sazbo wrote:

Here's a story in today's Guardian about AllOfMP3.com which, it claims, "poses as a legitimate online store but actually sells pirated recordings."

It seems as though it's a claim being made by the British music industry - perhaps not surprising...

What do you guys reckon about this?

Like you, i agree, it's hardly surprising that they said that. But rather than go on and on and on about the same thing, why don't they take the website to court (there's nothing to stop them initiating a civil case against them, whilst waiting on any criminal actions) and effectively shut them down by suing for damages.
Instead they persist with their propadanga campaigns. Indeed, as someone else pointed out, the USA is now trying to force Russia to shut down the site before considering their entry into the WTO. Again - why don't they use the laws of that country to shut the site down instead of using politics and the media.

Furthermore, in response to the "artists" that have posted complaining and moaning about it. Perhaps they could offer some explanation as to my earlier comments:

bs7 wrote:

I think the biggest problem is that the cost savings from online music isn't being passed on to the consumers!

It seems "legit" download sites are only using it as a chance to increase their profit margins rather than offer genuine value for money.
i.e. an album may cost £7.99 via itunes but is only £8.75 (or less with promotional vouchers) at cd-wow.com - so for a £0.76 saving you're losing the jewel case, the booklet/cover and back cover, the cd, and postage to you - so it doesn't seem that good a deal.
You may be paying slightly less but getting a lot less at the same time.
And remember once you've got the CD you can use itunes (or many other applications) to import it onto your computer in electronic format anyway - but also have the convenience of having the CD too.

The problem is the movie and music industry has become a powerful political figure, and they can force their opinions and economics on everyone else. We pay more for exactly the same product. The US version of iTunes works out cheaper than the UK version. Our European counterparts also tend to pay less despite the "single market". And there is little choice of online music outlets (most are usually simply re-brandings, or affiliates of a couple of larger companies).

At the end of the day they aren't going to convert allofmp3.com users into purchasers, but into proper pirates by pursuing the constant negative campaign.

It is also surprising to note that the "musicians" posting on this thread have failed to also explain that online sales in music give them a much greater chance of "making it": it tends to be the larger music companies and artists that, in fact, lose out overall due to online music (and "grey" areas), whereas the newer, less established artists benefit overall. However, given the nature of the beast, these artists will also seek to exploit absolutely everything to the maximum and will cry foul every single time.
What is also ignored is the fact that even allofmp3 (assuming the industry is correct) will generate thousands of pounds worth of genuine sales in music as a result of creating new interest in artists, and encouraging others to purchase the music elsewhere.

adm_4

I'm quite cross now that the Guardian is saying in the above article that allofmp3 is illegal like its fact. I also found this
http://money.guardian.co.uk/consumernews/story/0,,1765664,00.html

It (rightly I guess) claims that copying your CD to mp3 is illegal but suggests that the only reason you aren't prosecuted for it is that the music industry choose not to pursue you! Surely the law would be changed if the record industry tried enforcing this!?! MS and Apple support this buy allowing recordings of CDs in their formats (via their applications)...

bs7

adm wrote:

I'm quite cross now that the Guardian is saying in the above article that allofmp3 is illegal like its fact. I also found this
http://money.guardian.co.uk/consumernews/story/0,,1765664,00.html

It (rightly I guess) claims that copying your CD to mp3 is illegal but suggests that the only reason you aren't prosecuted for it is that the music industry choose not to pursue you! Surely the law would be changed if the record industry tried enforcing this!?! MS and Apple support this buy allowing recordings of CDs in their formats (via their applications)...

Well done noticing the other article. It correctly states:

it is not clear whether all music download websites are operating legally. The Russia-based allofmp3.com - which is the second most popular download site for Britons after iTunes, selling single tracks for between 2p and 5p - is the most controversial. Users are unlikely to be prosecuted for downloading the occasional track from the site, but the British Phonographic Industry, the trade association for UK record companies, is adamant that the website is illegal and the international equivalent of the BPI is conducting an investigation.

So i guess the recent "news" about it being illegal isn't even remotely new - just the BPI having another tantrum.

Sazbo

I must say it's all extremely confusing for someone of small brain like myself, trying to make sense of it all. I agree - if it's illegal then why isn't the law applied, or else changed? No doubt I'm taking too simplistic an approach...

But after all the official inquiries by the EU etc, into why we in the UK pay more for exactly the same CD (which never seem to produce any firm conclusions) - is it any wonder people are cynical of the motives of big business, i.e. the music industry, as bs7 says, using its power to pressure politics and the media.

sra

Two new developments:

International Federation of the Phonographic Industry Statement

AllofMp3.com Statement

Bernard_Coleslaw

So IFPI (the trade association for record companies) say that allofmo3.com is illegal.

And allofmp3 say that they're not.

Glad that's cleared it all up then!