Tribunal query re:solicitor (legal aid)

Cherry1

Hello MSE'ers,
Months ago (back in March), I posted on here about my partner being laid off illegally. Long story short, was referred for Legal Aid via CAB and waiting on tribunal.

Question today is: ACAS have said he needs to have the legal aid solicitor (who were inefficient, dis-organised and even admitted woman who dealt with his case was rubbish and isn't there anymore), to represent him and file the paperwork. For this, they will take 30%.

I am astounded because the case is clearly cut and dried (breaks several employment regulations per ACAS/BERR) and my partner will without doubt win his case. Very loathe to give 30% to this firm of solicitors who have not provided a professional service.

(Also, my partner has defaulted on his IVA and is now applying to go bankrupt although a DRO is more likely as he's signed off sick and has no assets. Worried that the monies from any tribunal payment will be totally swallowed up - yes, he does owe the money and was paying it all back till laid off. If monies go then there's no element of "compensation", not that the amount makes much difference. He'd rather have his health and a job)

Anyway, please could you advise re: what paperwork needs to be submitted apart from Schedule of Loss. He didn't have a contract (worked for employer for 7 years and they gave him an excellent reference but asked him to leave with no notice/deployment offer etc).

Thank you, apologies for being long-winded. This is just one of several things that need "fixing" at the moment so would be very grateful for any thoughts.

Regards,
Cherry

jazzyman01

Can you clarify. ACAS are saying that you have to pay to move on with the case? Did you agree anything with the legal aid solicitor regarding advice to date regarding payment?

Only ask because if what you have had to date has been free, then perhaps you can represent yourself?

Pee

Could you try containg the Legal Aid Board, now Community Legal Services? If work has been done for you, maybe this was the arrangement as to payment you reached, which you have reason to wish to change now.

Cherry1

Hello,
Thanks very much for replying, sorry for being unclear.

At point of illegal dismissal/"redundancy", CAB referred my partner to a Legal Aid solicitor who made some contact with his ex-employer and wrote up a Schedule of Loss (in April).
As case is going to tribunal (date sent in November just found out), Legal Aid solicitor normally stops representing and ACAS help. However, the ACAS advisor has told my partner that he should have representation (I don't know why though as it truly is a clear cut case), and that this firm having dealt with case should be the ones to do it. Partner has now signed forms saying he will pay these solicitors 30% of monies.

I would much rather he represent himself of course, the only thing is that the Schedule of Loss needs updating. How difficult can it be to fill in whatever paperwork is due to present on the date?

Am trying to be rational about this but as solicitors were so awful (lost papers, slow to follow up info requested, passed through head solicitor to case worker to trainee to other one back to head when partner complained, wrong figures being recorded), doubly against paying them.

olly300

Cherry1 wrote: »

Hello,
Thanks very much for replying, sorry for being unclear.

At point of illegal dismissal/"redundancy", CAB referred my partner to a Legal Aid solicitor who made some contact with his ex-employer and wrote up a Schedule of Loss (in April).
As case is going to tribunal (date sent in November just found out), Legal Aid solicitor normally stops representing and ACAS help. However, the ACAS advisor has told my partner that he should have representation (I don't know why though as it truly is a clear cut case),

Whether the case is clear cut or not the standard advice from ACAS is to use a solicitor.

I have read and heard of people who have represented themselves and won. However there compensation was cut down due to the employer's solicitor being able to use previous cases to limit the compensation paid to them.

Also tribunal judges prefer people to have a solicitor or legal representative representing them as then there is no arguments about whether the case was heard fairly.

Cherry1 wrote: »

and that this firm having dealt with case should be the ones to do it. Partner has now signed forms saying he will pay these solicitors 30% of monies.

That's because it's cheaper to use the solicitor you have used from the beginning. The new solicitor would have to review the paper work and would charge you for this. In addition the old solicitor would charge you for work done so far.

Your partner is obviously on a no win no fee agreement. So the more he gets the more the solicitor gets.

Cherry1 wrote: »

I would much rather he represent himself of course, the only thing is that the Schedule of Loss needs updating. How difficult can it be to fill in whatever paperwork is due to present on the date?

You clearly can't represent yourself otherwise you would have started doing things yourself from the beginning. It's a lot of hard work and if you are sorting out other serious things best not to do.

I've been present at tribunals when people who clearly don't know what they are doing have had cases. It's not pleasant.

While tribunals where originally set up for people to them uncontested more and more employment laws have been added with more and more cases referred to, to argue points of law whether it's to lay blame or argue to limit compensation.

Cherry1 wrote: »

Am trying to be rational about this but as solicitors were so awful (lost papers, slow to follow up info requested, passed through head solicitor to case worker to trainee to other one back to head when partner complained, wrong figures being recorded), doubly against paying them.

The solicitors where "awful" because your partner is a no-win no-fee case without a dedicated solicitor to resolve the issue. Even cases with dedicated solicitors tend to use the more junior ones with the partner called on for difficult matters. This keeps the cost down.

Also if you have a solicitor the other party knows that they can't mess you around and are likely to settle well before the tribunal date. If you don't they know they use legal arguments to either limit the compensation your partner would be awarded.

Cherry1

Oh. Ok, Olly, thank you for information.

He followed exactly as has been requested at each stage by CAB/solicitor/then contacting ACAS as solicitor said they don't represent anybody at tribunals, ACAS does, hence they told him to contact ACAS. That's why I'm unclear.

Whilst No Win No fee solicitors may hand cases to junior workers I didn't anticipate they wouldn't make clear, accurate case notes or hand over effectively to each other.

The Tribunal date has been put back several times at request of the other party (his ex employers), since September. Anyway, hopefully it will be done and dusted soon...

Appreciate the response. Will continue on path started then. Thank you.

olly300

ACAS act behind the scenes in all tribunal cases to help the disputing parties settle before they get to a hearing.

Unfortunately you may not first be assigned an experienced ACAS employee so you may be told information that is not very good. Therefore the onus is on you to insure that the information you are being given by ACAS or the party you are in dispute with is legally correct.

Cherry1

We are taking responsibility for making sure we are correct as well as doing our best via BERR/CAB/ACAS to make sure the process is correct. There is a bit of a catch22 when I'm looking to ACAS for info and it's incorrect though!

jazzyman01

As you have now signed up to use the solicitor, make them work for the money. Get them to respond regarding the update on the schedule of loss, if required. Also, if not already done, check on the bundle documents and the statements etc.

Pee

This sounds like it is not a Legal Aid matter, but a no win no fee agreement that your partner has signed up to. He will be paying them 30% whether they represent him at court or not then, in my understanding, so if this is correct, then make an appointment to see them fast and get the paperwork sorted to his liking. Try to be nice i.e. polite and reasonable with the solicitors, no matter how annoyed you might be, until after the case. At least if they are getting 30%, they will be trying to get you the biggest settlement possible.

olly300

Cherry1 wrote: »

We are taking responsibility for making sure we are correct as well as doing our best via BERR/CAB/ACAS to make sure the process is correct. There is a bit of a catch22 when I'm looking to ACAS for info and it's incorrect though!

Unfortunately as you are finding going through legal stuff is a mine field. Particularly as it's a case of people regardless of the organisation they work for, having their own interpretation of the law.

Least you are using a solicitors where there is one than one person involved.

I have heard horror stories from people where they have dealt with a sole practitioner who has shafted them, or the solicitor they are using refused to go to the senior partner to deal with an issue until the person phoned up to complain.

The best you can do is make sure you read the documentation about the process you are suppose to go through, and as the others above have stated co-operate with the solicitor as you really want the employer to be forced to settle before you need to actual have a tribunal hearing.

Also there is no legal aid for tribunal solicitors costs in the traditional legal aid sense.

You normally either pay yourself as you get the bill, have some form of insurance which will pay for you, have a union represent you or pay after you have won your case in some form of no-win no-fee arrangement.

In a very small minority of cases less than 1% the other side is made to pay and only after a tribunal hearing.