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We are planning home education and after school clubs as the way forward if we cannot get into a decent school. Mrs is a teacher though, so the first few years at private prep will be cheap as chips.

StevieJ

lynzpower wrote: »

Let me tell you a story

Whilst I was in primary school we lived in Northenden ( we are going back a few years!) I tried to get into Sale grammar and didnt pass 11 plus unfortunately. so we went and looked around the schools, and the one I was meant to go to ( feeder) well we walked up, me past a gang of girls scrapping pulling each others hair. Then one of the star pupils did a presentation on achievement and she was pregnant. I didnt really twig on at the time, as I was only 10 or whatever, but I remember my mum saying to my dad when we got home we are not sending her there. No chance.

So thats when they sold the house in northenden and moved to gatley so i could go to the local comp there. ( kingsway) which was streets ahead in terms of reputation.

I honestly think that the odds would have been stacked against me in terms of peers for me going onto universirty and continued lifelong learning. Over the years, relatives had gone to the other school dropped out with poor grades/ got pregnant/ skived off/ petty crime. It was expected that youd go to college or get an apprenticeship when we left kingsway.

this is some years ago, but im certain it makes a huge difference where you live and what the schools are like.

I was amazed to find out that Michael Wood the historian went to primary school in Moss Side and Wythenshawe, didn't do him any harm

Wood was born in Moston, Manchester. He studied at Heald Place Primary School in Moss Side, Manchester. When he was eight, his family moved to Wythenshawe, where he went to Benchill Primary School, and later Manchester Grammar School, where he started taking part of theatre, including the first British amateur production of Brecht's The Caucasian Chalk Circle [4].
He did his graduation in History and English at Oriel College, Oxford, and even tour the US for six weeks with A Midsummer Night's Dream in his final year. Later he did post-graduate research in Anglo-Saxon History, also from Oriel College[1][4].


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wood_%28historian%29

LydiaJ

StevieJ wrote: »

I was amazed to find out that Michael Wood the historian went to primary school in Moss Side and Wythenshawe, didn't do him any harm

Wood was born in Moston, Manchester. He studied at Heald Place Primary School in Moss Side, Manchester. When he was eight, his family moved to Wythenshawe, where he went to Benchill Primary School, and later Manchester Grammar School, where he started taking part of theatre, including the first British amateur production of Brecht's The Caucasian Chalk Circle [4].
He did his graduation in History and English at Oriel College, Oxford, and even tour the US for six weeks with A Midsummer Night's Dream in his final year. Later he did post-graduate research in Anglo-Saxon History, also from Oriel College[1][4].


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wood_%28historian%29

Errr... he was at Manchester Grammar School. That's hardly a sink school.

I think most people acknowledge that while good/bad primary schools make a bit of a difference, it's a secondary level where the difference is most significant. In any case, you've no information as to the quality of education offered by those two primary schools such a long time ago.

He's part of a whole generation of kids from poor families who got into grammar schools and went on to achieve more academic and professional success than anyone in their families had ever experienced.

fc123

silvercar wrote: »

Depends what you are offered. If you are offered a place at a decent-ish school with a mix of children, culturally, ability, and behaviourally then fine. If you are offered a school where the percentage of children getting 5 GCSEs is under 20%, where drugs and bullying are a part of school life, where some pupils upbringing makes them unable to act with any sense of normal social norms, your principles fly out of the window.

.

Our 'choice' for son would have been one @ 16% pass. This was 12 years back. The other choice had hardly any puplis and was indentified as 'badly failing ' or whatever phrase they use....could have been about 10% back then. I can't remember

'Choice' for daughter was 21% and there was no choice as it was the only one with space....and miles away.


Their cousin is now teen mum in LHA flat on benefits and went to the school that son was in catchment for. Not the schools fault at all but the associations she made led her to choose teen motherhood as a way to leave home and be 'independent' with a secure income ...albeit small. She left with no GCSE's.

Likewise quite a few of her mates from school have the same lifestyle.

She's no Einstein but, also, she had no learning difficulties and is bright enough so should have been capable of passing 5 GCSE's with no problem.

Sorry to hijack your thread with school chat Cleaver but I do object a little bit that it is assumed one goes private because of some kind of snobbery. It's not always like that.

dopester

LydiaJ wrote: »

Small private schools are very vulnerable to quite minor fluctuations in pupil numbers. A few kids less can make a huge difference in income and almost no difference in costs, and can drive a small school to the wall surprisingly quickly. Bigger schools have slightly more flexibility on staffing, and of course they have economies of scale.

One big independent school I know of laid off several staff over the summer, and another one is having a general belt-tightening - some responsibilities shared out amongst all staff instead of given to a few people who are paid extra for it, departmental running budgets cut/frozen etc.

Ok I'll concede a few of the disadvantages you point out, but still believe there are many advantages too. Also I suspect if parent's are required to contribute directly to their kid's education, even if it's just a couple of pounds a day, to £5, £10, £20 or whatever, it would be a positive thing overall.

My old school till the age of 10 (left at 9 though due to relocation) was just a big old house. It was run well as a school (private school). Yes the fees were at a certain market-rate, but if student numbers began to drop from 60 places due to a squeeze in wider market circumstances, I'd expect them to lower fees to meet a rate the market can meet. Many more smaller private schools doing that, with the more desirable being able to command the higher fees.

I know this much; if the funding to, or quality of, the state-school system drops for what are now seen as good schools, it would put me off sending my children to attend. If we see a big rise in the number of of private education entrepreneurs setting up private schools - competing on fees to match the market with bear for affordability, with higher standards than available in the state sector - I'll be sending my kids to one of those private schools.

Even if a smaller school folded due to low numbers, it wouldn't necessarily be some major issue. If it was an old big house you turn it back into a house without much fuss, or find another use for it. The teacher(s) look for work at a market rate elsewhere at another private school. Yesterday I noticed loads of buildings / houses / empty office blocks, which looked to have the makings of being convertible to small schools.

Anyway, the future is with private education in my opinion (without getting into arguments with schools in isolated locations where there are few kids in an area anyway.)

dopester

lostinrates wrote: »

There have been threads referring to private schools before, and a conversation I had recently with a friend who is a teacher at a well respected private school made me wonder if I should dig one up....but then I didn't, so this will do. This school lost a few pupils, very quickly, in the crunch, and new entrants were a smaller number than in recent years, but requests for information areup, and they are, unusually, taking a significant number of new pupils in January (suggestting at the very least sentiment is more robust).

Do you know if the private school has dropped their fees?

When my family began to struggle financially in a previous time, the headmaster of the private school I attended, at his discretion, gave us a couple of terms free.

Now more people are struggling.. I can only see lower fees for many private schools if they want to survive/prosper. Not all, but some.

dopester

silvercar wrote: »

Against private schoold fees of £10,000 per child per year, the premium looks small.

I'm arguing for the fact with competition in the sector and new private schools, the fees can be affordable, and those running the schools (non-profit or for-profit).

lemonjelly wrote: »

I'm not surprised. What better & more rewarding investment will you ever be able to make in your life?

In my line of work, I've found that it is generally the cost that people least want to cut back on if they encounter money problems. I think this is because of a number of reasons - impact on the child & their education, timing, the factor of having invested this much this far, to potentially have that wiped out by pulling them out of private school, and how it would look to others. To me, the last one is the least important, however it is usually the point that sways most parents.

We're not too far away from each other in thinking here Lemonjelly. It is just the £50K+ extra some people seem willing to pay for a house which falls in a good state school catchment area.

I'd perhaps like to live somewhere just as nice and send the kids to an affordable private school (where I expect more competition and fees to become ever more affordable, with better education than in funding-hit state-schools).

carolt

Cleaver wrote: »

Lastly, it was interesting to hear Carol talking about crime stats. I have never even thought to look at them. I kinda go by the rule of thumb of assessing whether an area / street is okay, checking my house is secure and then living my life knowing that there is a small chance of being mugged / burgled / attacked pretty much anywhere you live. It's a very small chance because we're a very safe country on the whole, so I never even think about. I've been mugged once and pickpocketed once, and they were in the same weekend in Barcelona. I've lived in some pretty rough areas as a small kid, as a student in a city, and I guess I do right now, and never had a hint of any type of problem.

My OH is influenced in that in his time at Manchester Uni, he had regular burglaries, and the worst was a close friend, whose house in Withington was broken into by a drug-crazed loon who attacked him - he escaped with his life only by jumping out of a first-floor window, breaking both his legs in the process. True story. (He's now a v v rich, successful banker in New Yorn - with perfectly working legs, so luckily it didn't affect him long-term...). But just regular burglaries, along with an undercurrent of casual violence, wasn't what my OH wanted for his kids. Which I understand. Certainly the crime stats would seem to back up it being much safer down south, where we live now.

lostinrates

dopester wrote: »

Do you know if the private school has dropped their fees?

When my family began to struggle financially in a previous time, the headmaster of the private school I attended, at his discretion, gave us a couple of terms free.

Now more people are struggling.. I can only see lower fees for many private schools if they want to survive/prosper. Not all, but some.

No, that was my first question too.:) Nor have the fees dropped at my nieces' schools. My wonder with school fees if it will be like the report about law fees earlier in the week, and I pointed out that AIUI a lot of clients have used any drop or negotiability to trade up a tier. But as pointed out: boarders from abroad have no problem. One of my nieces is the only natve english speaker in her room (of four).

lemonjelly

dopester wrote: »

I'm arguing for the fact with competition in the sector and new private schools, the fees can be affordable, and those running the schools (non-profit or for-profit).



We're not too far away from each other in thinking here Lemonjelly. It is just the £50K+ extra some people seem willing to pay for a house which falls in a good state school catchment area.

I'd perhaps like to live somewhere just as nice and send the kids to an affordable private school (where I expect more competition and fees to become ever more affordable, with better education than in funding-hit state-schools).

Put like that, I can't disagree with you.