Help Needed with speeding discussion!!

waster_2

The term speeding is, IMO, a tad misleading. I would suggest you start by saying that there is no real thing as speeding, just inappropriate speed.

You could then define speeding as travelling at a speed that is not suitable for the conditins prevailing at anyone time. This is often one of the arguments used to support the stupidity of speed cameras - what is more dangerous?

1. Driving at 90mph on a well lit, dry and deserted motorway at 2.00am (assuming you've had enough rest),or
2. Driving at 30mph on a 30 mph road as an infant school is turning out for the day on a cold, dark wet and icy December afternoon with parents cars parked both sides of the road?

Well, in 1. you are speeding according to the law and will be fined heavily and/or possibly banned.

In 2. you have not committed any offence.

Extremes, I know, but then all of the situations in between will be where sensible judgements should be used, not artificially created and often wholly inappropriate speed limits at that moment in time. Yes, we probably do need some control to curb the few loonies out there. But wholesale speed limits that are often, nowadays anyway, only created to enable Safety (joke!!) Partnerships to install some cameras and ramp uo their income are not the answer. I know of numerous roads in my area (some of them 3 lane dual carriageways) where the speed limit has been reduced to 30mph and then low and behold cameras appear!!!

Cameras take no account of the prevailing conditions. To them everything is black and white (no pun intended). Whereas your good old Traffic Copper will take a reasonable and sensible view of how you were driving and whether it was appropriate/safe in the prevailing conditions. You may get a bit of a telling off and a word of caution, but unless you were driving like the preverbial nutter you'd be unfortunate to get a summons.

There is lots that you can argue around the speeding/speed limit issue. Try not to get too bogged down with the black and white and that limits are always right. Good luck.

Wig

Waster,

In example 2. you are still breaking the law, and could be prosecuted for driving without care and attention....

Some have been prosecuted for driving under 30 in a 30 zone. Not very often but it does happen.

Chris_VRS

geo555 wrote:

How about highlighting the safty advances of modern cars. Anti lock brakes and better tyres. Improved road surfaces and street lighting.

You can also look here for fact on accidents.
https://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Facts&Figures/Facts&Figures_Home.htm
You will note that "excessive speed" is a definate factor in 6% (SIX) of all accidents. And as the government always tells us that speeding motorist are at fault for all pedestrian deaths, the actual fact is that 84% of pedestrians are killed or seriously injured due to there own incompetence.
Speeding does not kill, inapproprate speed does. Driving at 110mph on an empty motorway will harm no one. Driving at 29.9mph on a foggy, icy morning outside a school might!

Very well said!...
I totally agree with having a 30 limit in built up areas/around schools etc....but lets face it all the other limits are pretty antiquated!...the Highway Code is so out of date if I remember correctly a normal family car can pull up from 70 in around 30ft less than the HWC states maybe even more...and does anyone actually stick to 70 on a motorway?...doing this speed I think is actually dangerous compared to doing say 80-90 and keeping up with the vast majority of cars.

anyway thats my 2p's worth;)

Wirenth

There was one occasion (reported on BBC website, but can't find the article) where a driver sped through a gatso trying to pull over to an appropriate spot to let an ambulance by. If he'd impeded the ambulance by dawdling along to pull over, he wouldn't have been speeding, wouldn't have gotten the fine.

So, was he right to put his foot down in this particular instance?

waster_2

Wig wrote:

Waster,

In example 2. you are still breaking the law, and could be prosecuted for driving without care and attention....

Some have been prosecuted for driving under 30 in a 30 zone. Not very often but it does happen.

Not strictly true. Why would you be driving without due care and attention?

In any case, you would not be prosecuted for exceeding the posted speed limit which is what my analology of the silliness of speed limits was trying to demonstrate.


Also, of course, worth mentioning that people have been prosecuted for driving at too low a speed, especially on a Motorway. This is as dangerous as speeding. But of course these people will not be caught by an inanimate object that is unable to make reasoned and sensible judgments!!

NetLarfs

Many thanks to all have put their 2p's worth in so far.
I almost hate to admit to having a giggle at some.
Please keep 'em coming.

NetLarfs.
Guilty as charged for speeding!!

Wig

Wirenth wrote:

There was one occasion (reported on BBC website, but can't find the article) where a driver sped through a gatso trying to pull over to an appropriate spot to let an ambulance by. If he'd impeded the ambulance by dawdling along to pull over, he wouldn't have been speeding, wouldn't have gotten the fine.

So, was he right to put his foot down in this particular instance?

No, not least because he got himself a fine, stupid fool.

Wig

waster wrote:

Not strictly true. Why would you be driving without due care and attention?

"Driving at 30mph on a 30 mph road as an infant school is turning out for the day on a cold, dark wet and icy December afternoon with parents cars parked both sides of the road?"

This person is driving without due care and attention, and deserves to be prosecuted.

In any case, you would not be prosecuted for exceeding the posted speed limit which is what my analology of the silliness of speed limits was trying to demonstrate.

But you said "you have not committed any offence" I beg to differ, I think a court would differ with you aswell.

As I said some drivers have been prosecuted for driving too fast for the conditions even though they were under the official limit. Therefore it is "strictly true".

moonrakerz

With today's technology isn't it about time we had "intelligent" speed limits - a la M25 ?

In my area there have been a couple of new schools built, the speed limits have been reduced from 40 or 50 to 30 mph. Don't have any problem at all with that - but what really annoys me is when I drive past the school at 2 o'clock in the morning, in the middle of the summer holidays and there is a b****y great sign flashing at me because I am doing 32mph !!

But I suppose they wouldn't generate as much revenue.

tonys_3

It depends on the definition of speeding. Is it "travelling at speed" in which
case 50mph in a 70 mph area is still considered speeding.Or is it exceeding
a posted speed limit, or travelling at "an excessive speed for the prevailing conditions", though still within the posted speed limit?
What do you think Netlarfs?

You could also set out a number of scenarios and ask if speeding is involved.
eg a car is travelling at 50mph in a 70 mph area.
Speeding? or not speeding?

same scenario but fog has cut visibility to 30 yards.
Speeding or not speeding?

the fogs gone but the driver is a 14 year old joyrider
Speeding or not speeding?

scenario change to snowing and the road is very icy and ungritted
speeding or not speeding?
the driver is a top class rally driver and the road is empty
still speeding or not speeding?

the rally driver has just drunk 2 large scotches
speeding or not speeding?

Different scenario
truck doing 45 mph in a 30 mph area
speeding or not speeding?
it's a fire truck sirens on, responding to an emergency
speeding or not speeding?
truck[driving without lights] doing 55 mph on an unlit country
road at 3am
speeding or not speeding?
it's an army truck, driver has night vision goggles and is driving
on MOD land
speeding or not speeding?

motorcyclist doing 90 on a 70 mph road
speeding or not speeding?
the rider is in the Isle of Man tt race
speeding or not speeding

the rider is a paramedic, sirens on, going to a serious road accident
speeding or not speeding?

See how difficult it is? There are many other examples one could use to
either illustrate an apparent legal speed rate is actually dubious, and an
apparent illegal speed is within the law.
I've started the ball rolling Netlarfs-how about you giving us some examples
to help you with your project.