NHS pension anxieties...any thoughts?

bendix

In fairness to Dr Wu, roysterer, he has the humility to accept that he understands such pensions are unaffordable. Having said that he has also been 'in the system' for almost all his working life.

I don't think anyone - even me - would advocate retracting those accumulated benefits to date. The worst that should happen is that all accumulated benefits for public sector employees should be monetised, a cash value assigned to them, and then they should be transferred into money purchase schemes with the employer putting in a contribution similar to the private sector.

roysterer

Dr_Wu wrote: »

Which part of my post is likely to make "the majority of decent hard working tax paying people sick" exactly?

Apologies of course if I've inadvertantly had such an emetic effect on a group of people whom I of course number myself among.

This is what makes hard working tax paying people sick.
The fact that after 20 yrs service each additional year = 2 years of entitlement, who pays for that????????????

I have no personal agenda against you. It is the system that needs changing. When Mr Brown returns to Scotland after the next General Election I hope the next PM and government has the guts to eliminate this type of arrangement.

bumpoowee

Dr_Wu wrote: »

Which part of my post is likely to make "the majority of decent hard working tax paying people sick" exactly?

Apologies of course if I've inadvertantly had such an emetic effect on a group of people whom I of course number myself among.

I think he was referring to the fact that retiring at 55 on a full final salary pension is pure fantasy for most people. Of course it isn't your fault public funds are being abused to provide this, but it is clearly unfair.

In terms of your anxieties about cuts, I wouldn't expect at this stage for any serious cuts to be made to your pension, given that you are near the end of your career and have already accrued benefits that are unlikely to be taken away retrospectively. You will certainly end up with a much more generous pension than 99% of people under the age of 25 will get when they retire.

notaquitter

So public sector workers get more pay, then doesn't it follow that they pay more tax.
Goverment waste tax payers money, which is why there is a shortage in pension funds. Aim your venom at them.
And if you don't have very good pensions in the private sector, why havn't you put in for a job in the public sector and reaped the benefits.
All this in the media about local goverment pension scheme being held up with tax payers money is just a ploy by the goverment to cause this kind of ill feeling, so they can cut more spending and claw back money wasted with the backing of all the brainwashed tax payers.
I have seen it mentioned that if public pensions were cut it could drive those pensioners onto benefits, and who's going to pay for that!!

marklv

Dr_Wu wrote: »

Which part of my post is likely to make "the majority of decent hard working tax paying people sick" exactly?

Apologies of course if I've inadvertantly had such an emetic effect on a group of people whom I of course number myself among.

Just ignore the sour grapes lot. You've worked hard and fully deserve your retirement, at 55 or any other age. You won't get any sense from these people because they are motivated by envy and cry 'unfair' like a bunch of playground kids. A bunch of losers - and they know it, that's what makes them so frustrated and angry.

bumpoowee

marklv wrote: »

Just ignore the sour grapes lot. You've worked hard and fully deserve your retirement, at 55 or any other age. You won't get any sense from these people because they are motivated by envy and cry 'unfair' like a bunch of playground kids. A bunch of losers - and they know it, that's what makes them so frustrated and angry.

Lol, convenient you post this yet ignore any posts regarding the affordability of these type of pensions.

marklv

bumpoowee wrote: »

Lol, convenient you post this yet ignore any posts regarding the affordability of these type of pensions.

You always ignore that cost cutting measures have already taken place and more will continue to take place: retirement ages are being moved to 65, members are being asked to contribute more, index linking is becoming limited to 5% a year, final salary pensions are being replaced by career average salary ones, lower earnings limit is being deducted from pensionable pay, etc. More will follow, such as the jettisoning of the widow's pension. You don't need to completely dismantle these schemes to cut costs, you can make them cheaper to run, and that is what is taking place now in the public sector. The same could have been done in the private sector, but the greedy bast**ds who run these companies decided that the easiest thing was eliminating the pension altogether and replacing them with the money purchase savings plans. Is that something we in the public sector should be blamed for? Why?

perplexed.com

bumpoowee wrote: »

I think he was referring to the fact that retiring at 55 on a full final salary pension is pure fantasy for most people. Of course it isn't your fault public funds are being abused to provide this, but it is clearly unfair.

In terms of your anxieties about cuts, I wouldn't expect at this stage for any serious cuts to be made to your pension, given that you are near the end of your career and have already accrued benefits that are unlikely to be taken away retrospectively. You will certainly end up with a much more generous pension than 99% of people under the age of 25 will get when they retire.

Well I work in the nhs and I can tell you that the MHO arrangement referred to was closed to new members from 1995. I believe it was originally brought in only for people who worked closely with folk who suffered from mental ill health for the last 5 years prior to their retirement therefore excluding those who became managers.

It was to reflect the stresses and strains in this type of work and only applied to this group and no others in the health service. As conditions of work have improved it has been removed as something of anomaly but of course it will take a bit of time for it to 'die out'.

I'm sure someone will no doubt protest about the original reason for it but do reflect on how draining and demanding it can be to spend hours each day focussing mentally and physically very closely on the needs of very distressed people and trying to help them. Imagine spending years doing this and you may see why it was introduced. But it is abolished now as I say.

I am also very much in agreement about your post regarding the amount of money wasted in the health service and although I have never worked there am sure this is also the case in other public services. I am not sure where to begin with "revolting" about it though. I expect that people in the private sector don't necessarily protest about the waste they see going on in their area so am not sure this is any different/better there.

I have noticed that some of the greatest "waste" occurs when private contractors are taken on to do work for the NHS, btw.

bendix

marklv wrote: »

Just ignore the sour grapes lot. You've worked hard and fully deserve your retirement, at 55 or any other age. You won't get any sense from these people because they are motivated by envy and cry 'unfair' like a bunch of playground kids. A bunch of losers - and they know it, that's what makes them so frustrated and angry.

You really do come across as a disagreeable sort of person marklv, completely unable to debate an issue without resorting to insults. Many have noticed it before, and your modus operandi never changes.

The vast majority of people are not envious. I would argue they are rather annoyed at the inherent inequality in a system that means they are subsidising public sector pensions at a time when their own pensions are being diminished. That does not make people losers. You would win a few more friends around here if you at least accepted that, but it seems beyond you.

Frankly, I'm bored of the debate, and it has little to do with me anyway. My own personal pension plans are already taken care of, and a beachside home in Thailand awaits me in 4 years. :T

roysterer

bendix,
I 100% agree with your last post.
It is not envy at all. I am one of the lucky ones with 30+yrs Final Salary behind me. The young people in this country are not getting a fair chance they will not have the chance to retire before they are 70 or more. And paying high taxes to subsidise pensions in this current form is unethical, whilst providing a pittance
for themselve's.
Hope your next 4 yrs in the rat race fly by and you have a good retirement.
That ignoramous marklv thinks all people are after personal gain at the expense of him and his croonies. 3 members of my immediate family 2 nurses and 1 doctor work in the NHS and I have total respect for the hard work they do.
Fairness is all that anyone wants.