That old chesnut of the FTB house

silvercar

sticky23 wrote: »

What's wrong with it, is that you can only get on the ladder if your parents own a house, or are very wealthy.. Social mobility is already very low in this country, and to me it's a throw back to feudal times, when the aristocracy were the landowners, and the plebs were renting.

It would be much better for society if you could get a house if you worked hard, and saved up, not because Daddy owns a four bed detached in Surrey. Otherwise what's the point in working and trying to better yourself?

Disagree, what is wrong is that a lot of people won't look at properties that aren't in their ideal area or are on the small side or not perfectly fitted out. Not so long ago people bought houses that weren't ideal, lived in them and improved them as and when they could afford to. Now if they can't afford to buy it and make it luxury straight away they don't want to know.

If you work hard and save up you can buy a home. It may not be what you aspire to, it may not have a top-dog address, but it can be a start on the ladder.

When we bought our first home (80s) we had a portable telly stacked on a pile of telephone directories for the first few months. Nowadays the 40" Sony flat screen has to be installed by the end of week 1 or the deal is off.

lostinrates

silvercar wrote: »

Disagree, what is wrong is that a lot of people won't look at properties that aren't in their ideal area or are on the small side or not perfectly fitted out. Not so long ago people bought houses that weren't ideal, lived in them and improved them as and when they could afford to. Now if they can't afford to buy it and make it luxury straight away they don't want to know.

If you work hard and save up you can buy a home. It may not be what you aspire to, it may not have a top-dog address, but it can be a start on the ladder.

When we bought our first home (80s) we had a portable telly stacked on a pile of telephone directories for the first few months. Nowadays the 40" Sony flat screen has to be installed by the end of week 1 or the deal is off.

I agree that this is often the case BUT, we love a fixer upper, there are not so many about, and they are often comparatively more exensive in the short if you look at work that would need to be done with relative haste as opposed to for aesthetic reasons. My parents are of the opinion, which people here may be able to discount, that it was easier to get a mortgage on a less than perfect property when they were younger: they felt that in the late seventies/early eighties things with jobs that neede to be done were less unttractive to banks than they were in this decade?

Two fixer uppers are available in the area we are looking. The agent tells me its unlikely either would be mortgage able for the guide price. There for one, which IMO is a good purchase for a couple of young buyers for a family property in this area which I'd be perfectly prepared to live in while doing up is barred to most younger buyers.

ETA: in fact, I'm a bit grumpy today, so I'm considering throwing everything up in the air and going to look at one of these two....I can let you guys know how the bank views it if I do?

IveSeenTheLight

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There isn't enough "credit" in the system to support total lending. The Government has plugged the hole in the banks balance sheets for the time being.

Ok :rolleyes:

Thrugelmir wrote: »

These are small sums of money in the overall size of the mortgage market. Remember UK housing is valued at at around £3,400 billion pounds. So HSBC committing a gross £15 biliion to mortgage funding during 2009 is very small. Barclays has only increased total mortgage lending by £18 billion between the end of 2007 and September 2009.

Lending requirements does not need to equal house price valuation
Not all properties have a mortgage on it.
those properties with mortgages are not at 100% of the valuation.

Quite clearly, your summation that £3,400 billion pounds of credit is required for the house price valuation is seriously flawed

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Yet a 1.6% increase in house prices in one month. Represents an increase of £54 billion in the value of UK property. The numbers just don't stackup.

Again, a monthly increase in average of 1.6% from one index does not equate to a lending requirement increase for the full valuation of every property There was just over 50,000 sales last month, so even if every property was lent at 90% LTV (highly unlikely) the lending required would have been 7,600 million or 0.0076 billion.

A vast difference from your £54 billion representation. If the Halifax index dropped 1.6% next month, would you think that there would be £54 billion of credit released :rolleyes:

I would agree your figures don't stack up

IveSeenTheLight

lostinrates wrote: »

I agree that this is often the case BUT, we love a fixer upper, there are not so many about, and they are often comparatively more exensive in the short if you look at work that would need to be done with relative haste as opposed to for aesthetic reasons.

Disagree here.
Very few love a fixer upper nowadays.
Every property I have lived in, was bought and required to be "fixed up"
There are literally thousands of these out there, but the current perception is that people want to be able to move straight in, hence the surge in new build properties.
This is also why the renovating of a property and then selling onto to those who didn't want to fix it up was such a lucrative option.

I only ever bought one property that didn't / shouldn't have needed fixing up and that was a new build 4 bed detached house, bought off plan and sold when completed.
I tried initially (as per the advice I received) to sell without doing anything to the property as a fixed price but it didn't generate the interest or offers that was envisaged.
I put in carpets and dressed the property (put in furnishings) and the next two viewers both offered the full asking price.

Quite simply, people could not envisage what it would be like to live in until the property was "dressed".
This in my opinion is the vast majority of home buyers out there who do not want any hassle at home and wnat somewhere to put their feet up immediately in front of the 40" flat screen

lostinrates

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Disagree here.
Very few love a fixer upper nowadays.
Every property I have lived in, was bought and required to be "fixed up"
There are literally thousands of these out there, but the current perception is that people want to be able to move straight in, hence the surge in new build properties.
This is also why the renovating of a property and then selling onto to those who didn't want to fix it up was such a lucrative option.

I only ever bought one property that didn't / shouldn't have needed fixing up and that was a new build 4 bed detached house, bought off plan and sold when completed.
I tried initially (as per the advice I received) to sell without doing anything to the property as a fixed price but it didn't generate the interest or offers that was envisaged.
I put in carpets and dressed the property (put in furnishings) and the next two viewers both offered the full asking price.

Quite simply, people could not envisage what it would be like to live in until the property was "dressed".
This in my opinion is the vast majority of home buyers out there who do not want any hassle at home and wnat somewhere to put their feet up immediately in front of the 40" flat screen

Honestly, we've been looking for a fair time now, and fixer uppers rarely get sent through to us, by agents or on the email alerts. I recognise this is probably narrowed by our other search criterior. I don't know if you remember, but one of the places we got very serious about was a ''fixer upper'' details of which were posted here by smeone else complaining about how dear it was, and DH and I went. We were the only non developers looking, AFAICT, so I agree, we as private buyers were in the minority, but I do think the price and the difficulty for many of borrowing against things in delapidated condition was relevent.

IveSeenTheLight

lostinrates wrote: »

Honestly, we've been looking for a fair time now, and fixer uppers rarely get sent through to us, by agents or on the email alerts. I recognise this is probably narrowed by our other search criterior. I don't know if you remember, but one of the places we got very serious about was a ''fixer upper'' details of which were posted here by smeone else complaining about how dear it was, and DH and I went. We were the only non developers looking, AFAICT, so I agree, we as private buyers were in the minority, but I do think the price and the difficulty for many of borrowing against things in delapidated condition was relevent.

I totally agree that you have to do your figures and work out whether it is financially viable to do up a property.

I have only seen a couple of properties that were overbid for my liking, but then again these were snapped up by professional developers who are likely to be able to cut their margins tighter than I could.

I believe there are many properties that can be moved into immediately and then rennovated whilst in the property, but people nowadays just don't want to do it.

My first flat, the wife and I had our bed in the livingroom while we sorted out a damp problem in the bedroom on one wall and re-plastered (plaster and lathe) another wall. This was all done while also doing a full time job/
It took time, but the pleasure in seeing our work completed and moving the bed into the bedroom was a great achievement.

All our properties have needed "doing up" and this is something I look for to be honest as the competition for the properties is less and can be bought for cheaper than properties that have a "finished" spec

lostinrates

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I totally agree that you have to do your figures and work out whether it is financially viable to do up a property.

I have only seen a couple of properties that were overbid for my liking, but then again these were snapped up by professional developers who are likely to be able to cut their margins tighter than I could.

I believe there are many properties that can be moved into immediately and then rennovated whilst in the property, but people nowadays just don't want to do it.

My first flat, the wife and I had our bed in the livingroom while we sorted out a damp problem in the bedroom on one wall and re-plastered (plaster and lathe) another wall. This was all done while also doing a full time job/
It took time, but the pleasure in seeing our work completed and moving the bed into the bedroom was a great achievement.

All our properties have needed "doing up" and this is something I look for to be honest as the competition for the properties is less and can be bought for cheaper than properties that have a "finished" spec

But we do, and we are looking for them!

I have reporte this before, but (before peak, in the build up) I jad a converstaion with the head of a mainly London and SE agent, who, in a nutshell said, fixer uppers, for the private buyer, were difficult as ''every banker and his wife'' (his words) saw them selves as property developers, and would pay way over the odds for a property in order to do it up.

I think some other of my chums would be prepared to keep renting and do something up to live in, or rough it, if it were possible.

Anyway, I think I will see one of these: lets see what the bank says!

IveSeenTheLight

lostinrates wrote: »

But we do, and we are looking for them!

I have reporte this before, but (before peak, in the build up) I jad a converstaion with the head of a mainly London and SE agent, who, in a nutshell said, fixer uppers, for the private buyer, were difficult as ''every banker and his wife'' (his words) saw them selves as property developers, and would pay way over the odds for a property in order to do it up.

I think some other of my chums would be prepared to keep renting and do something up to live in, or rough it, if it were possible.

Anyway, I think I will see one of these: lets see what the bank says!

I don;t know the London or SE market so would have to take your word for ut
Certainly it would seem that there are still plenty of oppertunities elsewhere, so maybe you should consider other market area's

chucky

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I don;t know the London or SE market so would have to take your word for ut
Certainly it would seem that there are still plenty of oppertunities elsewhere, so maybe you should consider other market area's

the opportunities in London have virtually disappeared with the lower volume on sale.

the best time to buy was between June 2008 and February 2009 - there were plenty of bargains around that people were too scared to touch due to fear instead of looking at them as opportunities.

silvercar

Imagine a property on at 180k with 20k work needed. after refurb worth 220k say.

When credit was easy someone could get a 100% mortgage for 180k and spend their 20k doing it up. Result property worth 220k.

Now the 20k for work would need to be spent on the deposit. So 18k deposit mortgage of 162k and only 2k left to do the work. It no longer balances, hence the lack of interest in refurb properties for the ordinary buyer.