A pension for everyone?

Former_MSE_Andrea

Poll started 15 May. Currently the state pension is paid out regardless of wealth or income, there's no means testing. So Alan Sugar and the Duke of Westminster are entitled to it. Which of the following is nearest your view?

a. Pensions for all. It's not about their wealth it's a principle
b. They've paid for it. They paid their taxes, they're entitled
c. Means test it. Stop giving it to them and give more to those who need it

Vote here or click reply to discuss.

economiser

The means testing procedure would end up costing more than it saved and we would all be worse off. Except for the extra civil servants required to administer the scheme.

teddyco

When I think about the Pensions trouble here in the UK, it reminds me that our American cousins are suffering with the same problems on the other side of the pond. Yes they have high growth, but they also have over 4 trillion dollars in debt to worry about.

That 4 trillion dollars in debt is the result of fifty years of endless social give-away programs that is just about to bankrupt the United States government.

In the United States, Social Security was a post-depression fix that came from FDR's Presidency in the White House. It was originally set up to be a "safety net" to keep Americans out of the poor house in their old age, but sadly has developed into a system that people expect to solve all of their problems.

Like America, Britain is slowly becomming a nation where everyone has their hand out, expecting government to "give me something". I honestly think that is extremely dangerous, because the more we expect them to give us, the more taxes they will take to fix our problems, and then we are all so shocked when we discover that Big Brother is watching us.

The end result is a mountain of debt like they have in the US.

The British system, like the American system has developed into this big pile of money that everyone trusts will be there when they retire, and like a lot of things in this life, it isn't quite working out that way.

I remember a line from one of my favourite movies, "Excalibur" when Merlin tells King Arthur that "it is the doom of men that we forget".

Socialism is like the Sirens Song in the Greek myth of Odyseus; Men are consistently lured to this idealistic vision of social stability and a chicken in everyone's pot, clean streets, and fresh flowers in the town centre, but what they really get is inefficiency in work and government, high crime, piles of garbage since all the bin-men are on strike, big brother watching you to make sure you are paying your fair share of taxes, and folks squabbling about the other person's kids getting more than your kids.

I just wish someone would take a page from the history books and discover once again, that Socialism in all it's magical, enchanting forms, DOESN'T WORK! Hitler tried it, Stalin tried it, and now Europe is wallowing in it, and all it has given them is inflation and massive unemployment.

Then you look at the French who actually have a socialistic law that "forces" them to work a 35 hour week. I once worked a 35 hour week and was considered "part time".

Russia, at the end of WW2, swallowed most of Eastern Europe in a wave of socialism, and we are still cleaning up the mess, will we ever learn?

Yes, Britain and the USA need some form of social safety net to help those who are less fortunate, but we need to scrap our current system and force people to take a more active role in saving and investing for their future pension, rather than depending on the government to provide for everyone and his wife.

edsan

The whole pension debate is moot. The real problem is not that the system as it exists now is unsustainable and will collapse somewhere in the future (probably at the time people that are now in their late 20s to mid 30s expect to retire after a lifetime of work and study) but that the ones that will be sacrificed then; getting no pension whatsoever and having to work until they are in there late 70s and then drop dead at the workplace (that is, if they haven’t been laid off in their 50’s and starved to death); are the same ones that are forced to feed this monstrously bloated system which still provides for early retirements and round-the-world holidays for many lucky pensioners. (I used to live in southern Portugal so I know what I saw).

I have already begun to prepare myself mentally to work until the day I die because every day it becomes more of a possibility. There will be no sunny “best-holidays-of-our-lives” retirement for my generation. But I can live with that. What I resent, however, is being pimped out of my money by socialist governments. I can manage my own personal private retirement and healthcare; thank very much…or I could if I got back all those thousands of pounds my “democratically” elected masters take from my hard-own wage every year. And don’t even get me started on Council Tax and VAT.

It is a sad fact that in western societies the rich are getting richer; the poor keep leeching off welfare and the “middle class” just has to shut up, pay the bill and tighten the belt.

If we won’t get the chance to get our cake and eat it too then no one should be allowed to eat from our table. The government can do whatever they want with pension law as long as people are allowed to opt out from it and use their money elsewhere.

thriftymifty

Eventually when i retire i will have a private pension because i have made sacrifices and paid into one. I will, hopefully, also be entitled to a state pension for which i will feel no guilt.

I see people of my generation wasting their money because we live in a "do it now" society. They go on 2 holidays a year, go out drinking every weekend, buy all the latest fashion and the newest LCD tv's. Im not just talking about the middle classes here im talking about people on less than £20,000 a year. The so called poorer parts of our nation are laughing behind our backs because they can, and do, p*** their money up the wall and in 30 years time when it comes to claiming their pensions they will cry ignorance and poverty and moan that they still dont get enough to live on.

My parents generation, and anyone over the age of 40 i think, have had to live perhaps in different times so they have made provisions for their future.

My in-laws have saved in their lifetime an impressive £100,000 and they have paid off their mortgage. They dont earn big sums of money at most £50,000 joint income but they have not been silly and didnt go out clubbing every weekend.
So my point is why should they, having payed their way all their lives and thought about their future, have to pay for someone elses retirement who gave no regard to their own future because they though someone else would.

My parents and in-laws are just as entitled to a state pension as the next man.And so will i be

Former_MSE_Archna

Poll Title: Poll started 15 May. Currently the state pension is paid out regardless of wealth or income, there's no means testing. So Alan Sugar and the Duke of Westminster are entitled to it. Which of the following is nearest your view?

b. They've paid for it. They paid their taxes, they're entitled
63.6% (1935 Votes)
c. Means test it. Stop giving it to them and give more to those who need it 23.3% (711 Votes)
a. Pensions for all. It's not about their wealth it's a principle
12.8% (391 Votes)

Total Votes: 3039

nmealey

I have paid my national insurance and taxes since I was 16, I have never claimed unemployment benefit, choosing to drive 60 miles each way to get £3.50 per hour as a kitchen porter scrubbing pots & pans when inbetween main jobs.

I am now 33 years old, and have been on a YTS on a farm, in the army, a truck driver, bus driver, DJ, kitchen porter, delivery driver and now have been in my current job for nearly 12 years.

A few years ago we had the married persons allowance taken away, and replaced by tex credits, which I'm not entitled to because of my family income, I pay £240 per month council tax, but live in a small village with no amenities, and cant get the council's pest control to help with a vermin problem, as I'm not in a council house. Why should I pay into a state pension scheme if I'm never going to get it ?

All those who said means test it are voting against folk like me from getting soemthing that I have paid into, come hell or high water, every month, week and year, yet some scroat who isn't prepared to take a job thats offered, cleaning, stacking shelves, pot washers etc. picking litter up in the town centre on a friday / saturday night, they are entitled - I don't think so.

if you pay in you should get, if you dont pay in then you shouldn't. simple as that, and that goes for the council tax too. [/RANT]

peedy-wessex

Clearly, the present system is not working. It isn't fair, so it's no good any of us pontificating on what we've done, what we get, what we don't get. There was an opportunity to do something radical and get it right. But what does this incompetent government do? It twiddles with the existing system: Work till you are 68 years old, pay more (quite a lot more, compared with what we're going to get out of it), link it to incomes and what have you got? Still a bloody lousy pension, that's what you've got.

The answer? Well I'm not an expert - uh! maybe somebody knows of one? But I think it would be quite easy for the government to legislate and say that, in future, everybody at work must contribute 10% of their incomes into a pension fund that is put into a fund that the government cannot get their greasy fingers on, where it will earn a proper rate of interest, and where it will pay everyone a decent pension - say, 50% of what they earned whilst at work. I did this! I paid a little extra into my employer's pension fund and I have retired on a pension 50% of what I was earning. It's quite a drop, isn't it? But that is one helluva lot better than most people will get if they just rely on the state pension. I've adjusted, and I am managing very well. One problem with pensions, though, is that we get increases in line with inflation - say 1% to 2% and my council tax goes up 4% (this year), 13% last year; gas/electric just up by about 25%, petrol up by 10%. That anomaly needs sorting.