Credit card debt after death - please help

misswin

Hi, Thank for reading, I'm really stuck and need some advice please.
My Grandma passed away in recently, naming my Grandad as executor of her will. easy enough we thought. Assets were as follows:
1)House owned in joint names with my grandad (family solicitor holds the deeds automatically changed the deeds to sole name after the reading of the will)
2) a joint bank account - which was paid in by my grandad and not contributed to in any way by my Grandma
3) Grandma's car , which was a gift from my grandad.
4) Grandma's jewellery - wedding ring and engagement ring.
5) a life insurance policy naming my grandad as beneficiary.
6) bank accounts with approx 4k in
my grandma also did my grandad's book keeping, which she was paid a wage for and paid tax accordingly.

Items in joint names were automatically transferred to my grandad's name, and car was put into his name as he was beneficiary of the will.

Imagine our shock when we found Grandma to be in approx 40k worth of debt, she had
1)a loan, which thankfully was insured so has been wiped.
2) 2 credit cards totalling £17k -
after funeral expenses were paid from the balance in Grandma's account, there is around £600 left in the bank to go towards paying the credit cards. My question (after my rambling - thanks for reading by the way, it's a subject that's been very upsetting for us and having a good vent helps!) is what parts of the above assets mentioned form part of the will, and what do we need to take into account when paying off the credit cards? Can they take the car, or the house? What about her wedding ring and the insurance policy? Obviously if we'd known then what we know now Grandad would have refused to be executor, and it's really been up to me to help him with the debt settling part- he's never been in debt and doesn't know where to start - neither do I really! Tried calling CAB, have spent many an hour re dialling as their system advises me all operators are busy then cuts me off, or puts me through to an automated advice service with no humans on the phone. I'm a student teacher, so unfortuneately I can't take time out in a morning between 09:00 and 12:30 to attend a drop in centre, and I can't make an appointment as I can't get through on the phone ... If anyone can help I would really appreciate it. Thanks

BigBother

Hi Miiswin,
Sorry to hear your tale of woe. No they can only take assets, eg car If there has been a CCJ isssued by a court. These Bankers sometimes threaten to send in Ballifs, its a scare tactic. Only a court can send a baliff. Now I think the general rule for Death of a debtors is that debts die with them. You should write to the creditors with a copy of the Death certifcate, and see what happens. I did this for my late father and heard no more. Hope this helps.

vaporate

More experienced posters than I will come along soon but, I would of thought that if the debt is in her sole name ONLY, then the debt would be written off.

They, the lenders, can't pass on the debt if it was in your grandma's name only.

misswin

Thanks, Barclays bereavement services are dealing with splitting the money in her bank between the two cards, but as it's no where near enough to cover it we were worrying Grandad would be faced with either selling his home, or using his life savings to pay off the balance (as these were the two items in joint names). and the poor chap's got enough to deal with after losing his wife (I say grandma and grandad but they brought me up so they're more my parents), and with him being the executor too it's a nightmare - like i said we thought it'd be done and dusted easily.

smartpicture

Hopefully someone who knows for certain will come along, but I don't agree with the previous posters. Debts don't die with a person, they are expected to be paid for out of the estate (ie whatever assets the person leaves behind), and are only written off if there is insufficient in the estate to pay them. So it would seem to me that half of the joint account would be deemed to belong to your grandma, together with the car etc and therefore would be expected to be used to pay off the debts. I'm not sure about the house, it may depends on how it was owned.

I would say you need proper legal advice, and as you already seem to have a solicitor then that is the way to go. Or you can get a free half hour advice with a new solicitor. This is too serious not to look into it properly, I would suggest.

SimbaSimon

My understanding was that debts would be taken out from any assets that were owned and bank accounts. So if her name is on the house and savings then they can take what they are owed from that and then whatsevers left will go to your grandad.

lisyloo

Smart picture is right.
Your grandad is not liable for your grandmothers debts, but her estate is liable i.e. any of HER money left over.
It's highly unlikely that a judge would allow a house to be repossesed for a small amount of money, but certainly 50% of joint account money is assumed to be your grandmothers,
If it was your grandads money then he may be able to provbe otherwise, but you'd really need a solicitor for this.
It may not just GO AWAY so you need to deal with it.

misswin

I think my Grandad is hoping it will just go away - I don't think it would though - will look for a free legal clinic - my grandad would be able to prove the joint account money was his - it was in his sole name until about a month before Grandma died - I'm not sure why she would let him put it into joint names knowing how much debt she had, and she had been ill for a long time before her death too.

ALIBOBSY

My understanding is that the marital home can't be touched for the estate(as long at it is left to the spouse) , but the debt can and will be claimed against the value of the deceased's estate.

Debts don't die with the debtor, but are written off if there is little or no estate. Obviously taxes and funeral expenses are covered first, but every thing else can be taken into account.

Any money or assets in her name have to be taken into account. Including joint savings (half would be her share), cars, other property.

It is part of the executor's duties to establish the value of the estate and to settle any debt.

However if the value of the estate does not cover the debt your grandad has no obligation himself to pay the extra from his assets.

Firstly send the cards confirmation of her death, she may have had payment protection on the cards anyway which will clear the debt, or they may write it off anyway, but given the large amount involved they may not be prepared to do this.

good luck

ali x

He might just get away with the savings account thing (but they could argue it was a "gift" from him to her and became her asset when her name was put onto the account I would have thought), but definately the value of the car which was in her name will have to be paid I would have thought.

He definately needs to see a lawyer asap as it could get messy.

lisyloo

My understanding is that the marital home can't be touched for the estate(as long at it is left to the spouse)

I think this depends on whether the house was held as "joint tennants" or "tennants in common".
Normally it would go straight to the survivor outside of the estate but it does depend on the above. This is why you need the help of a solicitor.

Aytoun27

I think that you need to take professional advice on this one urgently, but as I understand it debts don't die with a person unless they have no assets. The joint account and the joint ownership of the house would mean that your Grandma did have assets, but I'm not sure how the fact that they have already been transferred to your Grandad would affect things. Especially as part of the duties of the executor is to pay off any outstanding debts and your Grandad was also the executor. I can't help feeling that your solicitor should have advised you about all this

You could free posting on the debt-free board as folks over there may know more, but my gut feeling is that this is something that you need expert advice on.