Abbey Loan PPI internet application reclaiming

stuart-193

Hi

Sorry, this is a bit lengthy ... I am posting on behalf of my wife who took out a personal loan from Abbey in Feb 2004. She is self employed and had been for 18 years at the point of application. She applied over the internet and received confirmation that she was eligible for the loan of £15000 a few days later by letter, which she signed and returned and had the £15000 deposited to her account soon after.

Recently, we were looking at our finances - I discovered that she had taken out the PPI insurance on her Abbey loan. I was surprised, as she had had problems with PPI on a MBNA credit card in 2002 when she attempted to claim. So I got her to cancel the insurance ASAP, which amounted to £42/month. Then I remembered seeing Martin on GMTV and something about reclaiming PPI for mis-selling. The total paid so far over 5 years is something like £2770, so we started down that route for her and asked for a copy of the loan agreement from them.

It came yesterday. The loan repayments and details of PPI are separated and clear - her signature and the date is clear and also the terms of conditions say that "you have to be working over 16 hours, employed, self employed or in a contract for more than 6 months for PPI". However, the Terms and conditions on the back are for "Staff Abbeyloan" - clearly she isn't staff at abbey.

My questions are:

1. Upon reading the latest Abbey PPI policy (on their website, I don't know if this was the same as the one on the web site when she originally applied - I suspect not) regarding self employment, to make a successful claim it says you must be able to provide proof of involuntary cessation of trading because you couldn't find enough business to meet your reasonable business costs and living expenses and proof that you have registered as unemployed. Does this imply forced cessation of business due to bankruptcy or insolvency? As far as I can see, you can decide to close a self employed business for any reason, but proving that it couldn't support your lifestyle is almost impossible - many self employed people don't earn enough from that business to support themselves, their partner also works, etc, etc. You can't make yourself redundant. Is this a usual term in the policy which is being questioned in cases of self employment?

2. She can't remember specifically choosing the PPI - as I said, she had problems before and would have thought hard about it. Also, as it was an internet application, there wasn't anyone helping with the choice (I assume there would have been the policy wording available though). She thinks it may not have been clear enough that it wasn't compulsory, however the documentation does say "if you require PPI" and "you have indicated to us that you require PPI"

3. There is no indication that she is self employed on the documentation - as far as she can remember, there was no question in the internet form saying "are you self employed?" but it was a long time ago. Should that be clearly mentioned on the documentation?

4. What do you make of the Staff Abbeyloan header on the Terms and Conditions? It was clearly the wrong document that she signed - further indications of this are that 25% of the terms and conditions refer to employment with Abbey

5. Where do we stand with reclaims from internet applications with regards PPI mis-selling? Apparently when you go for a loan with Abbey over the phone or in a branch they have a customer care form which all the staff have to fill in when selling PPI - obviously this isn't available on the internet applications.

I guess I'd like to know if she was mis-sold this PPI - any help will be much appreciated

Thanks
Stuart

di3004

stuart-193 wrote: »

Hi

Sorry, this is a bit lengthy ... I am posting on behalf of my wife who took out a personal loan from Abbey in Feb 2004. She is self employed and had been for 18 years at the point of application. She applied over the internet and received confirmation that she was eligible for the loan of £15000 a few days later by letter, which she signed and returned and had the £15000 deposited to her account soon after.

Recently, we were looking at our finances - I discovered that she had taken out the PPI insurance on her Abbey loan. I was surprised, as she had had problems with PPI on a MBNA credit card in 2002 when she attempted to claim. So I got her to cancel the insurance ASAP, which amounted to £42/month. Then I remembered seeing Martin on GMTV and something about reclaiming PPI for mis-selling. The total paid so far over 5 years is something like £2770, so we started down that route for her and asked for a copy of the loan agreement from them.

It came yesterday. The loan repayments and details of PPI are separated and clear - her signature and the date is clear and also the terms of conditions say that "you have to be working over 16 hours, employed, self employed or in a contract for more than 6 months for PPI". However, the Terms and conditions on the back are for "Staff Abbeyloan" - clearly she isn't staff at abbey.

My questions are:

1. Upon reading the latest Abbey PPI policy (on their website, I don't know if this was the same as the one on the web site when she originally applied - I suspect not) regarding self employment, to make a successful claim it says you must be able to provide proof of involuntary cessation of trading because you couldn't find enough business to meet your reasonable business costs and living expenses and proof that you have registered as unemployed. Does this imply forced cessation of business due to bankruptcy or insolvency? As far as I can see, you can decide to close a self employed business for any reason, but proving that it couldn't support your lifestyle is almost impossible - many self employed people don't earn enough from that business to support themselves, their partner also works, etc, etc. You can't make yourself redundant. Is this a usual term in the policy which is being questioned in cases of self employment?

2. She can't remember specifically choosing the PPI - as I said, she had problems before and would have thought hard about it. Also, as it was an internet application, there wasn't anyone helping with the choice (I assume there would have been the policy wording available though). She thinks it may not have been clear enough that it wasn't compulsory, however the documentation does say "if you require PPI" and "you have indicated to us that you require PPI"

3. There is no indication that she is self employed on the documentation - as far as she can remember, there was no question in the internet form saying "are you self employed?" but it was a long time ago. Should that be clearly mentioned on the documentation?

4. What do you make of the Staff Abbeyloan header on the Terms and Conditions? It was clearly the wrong document that she signed - further indications of this are that 25% of the terms and conditions refer to employment with Abbey

5. Where do we stand with reclaims from internet applications with regards PPI mis-selling? Apparently when you go for a loan with Abbey over the phone or in a branch they have a customer care form which all the staff have to fill in when selling PPI - obviously this isn't available on the internet applications.

I guess I'd like to know if she was mis-sold this PPI - any help will be much appreciated

Thanks
Stuart

Hello and welcome Stuart

Bumping this one up for you, and hope Dunstonh will be along soon to have a look at this for you.

Sometimes even when your self employed your still protected with these policies, but they all vary.

So worth getting more info and advice on this matter, hopefully Dunstonh who is a financial adviser will be along shortly, good luck.;)

marshallka

stuart-193 wrote: »

Hi

Sorry, this is a bit lengthy ... I am posting on behalf of my wife who took out a personal loan from Abbey in Feb 2004. She is self employed and had been for 18 years at the point of application. She applied over the internet and received confirmation that she was eligible for the loan of £15000 a few days later by letter, which she signed and returned and had the £15000 deposited to her account soon after.

So at this time she did not think she applied for the actual PPI??

Recently, we were looking at our finances - I discovered that she had taken out the PPI insurance on her Abbey loan. I was surprised, as she had had problems with PPI on a MBNA credit card in 2002 when she attempted to claim. So I got her to cancel the insurance ASAP, which amounted to £42/month. Then I remembered seeing Martin on GMTV and something about reclaiming PPI for mis-selling. The total paid so far over 5 years is something like £2770, so we started down that route for her and asked for a copy of the loan agreement from them.

It came yesterday. The loan repayments and details of PPI are separated and clear - her signature and the date is clear and also the terms of conditions say that "you have to be working over 16 hours, employed, self employed or in a contract for more than 6 months for PPI". However, the Terms and conditions on the back are for "Staff Abbeyloan" - clearly she isn't staff at abbey.

My questions are:

1. Upon reading the latest Abbey PPI policy (on their website, I don't know if this was the same as the one on the web site when she originally applied - I suspect not) regarding self employment, to make a successful claim it says you must be able to provide proof of involuntary cessation of trading because you couldn't find enough business to meet your reasonable business costs and living expenses and proof that you have registered as unemployed. Does this imply forced cessation of business due to bankruptcy or insolvency? As far as I can see, you can decide to close a self employed business for any reason, but proving that it couldn't support your lifestyle is almost impossible - many self employed people don't earn enough from that business to support themselves, their partner also works, etc, etc. You can't make yourself redundant. Is this a usual term in the policy which is being questioned in cases of self employment?

Usually cessation of the business mean that you stop paying national insurance as self employed and start to claim unemployment benefit or register as unemployed. Usually this is all that is classed for a claim for self employment, I have never heard of the other bit from anyone on here

2. She can't remember specifically choosing the PPI - as I said, she had problems before and would have thought hard about it. Also, as it was an internet application, there wasn't anyone helping with the choice (I assume there would have been the policy wording available though). She thinks it may not have been clear enough that it wasn't compulsory, however the documentation does say "if you require PPI" and "you have indicated to us that you require PPI"

It would then be classed as a non advised sale and if she did apply via the internet then before signing there would have had to have been a box to tick saying you have read and understand the terms and conditions of the policy and accept them.

3. There is no indication that she is self employed on the documentation - as far as she can remember, there was no question in the internet form saying "are you self employed?" but it was a long time ago. Should that be clearly mentioned on the documentation?

Did she have to provide details of "employment, self employment on the actual application of the loan. It usually would not actually ask this question when a PPI policy is bought but would be within the terms and conditions that you have to accept??

4. What do you make of the Staff Abbeyloan header on the Terms and Conditions? It was clearly the wrong document that she signed - further indications of this are that 25% of the terms and conditions refer to employment with Abbey

I would say that they have sent you the wrong terms and conditions for your actual loan. As these are printed on the reverse of your agreement I would like to see how they actually can get out of this one as this being your actual agreement?

5. Where do we stand with reclaims from internet applications with regards PPI mis-selling? Apparently when you go for a loan with Abbey over the phone or in a branch they have a customer care form which all the staff have to fill in when selling PPI - obviously this isn't available on the internet applications.

I guess I'd like to know if she was mis-sold this PPI - any help will be much appreciated

Thanks
Stuart

You really need a to ask for a screen shot of the actual application which they can (no guarantee though)provide within a SAR sometimes and sometimes this is what the FOS requests when adjudicating these matters. There is a SAR template on here
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1475553

This may help with your actual application process and how this came to be applied. It does cost you £10 though and can take them 40 days to supply it too. If your only reason for claiming is actually that you were not covered I would check 100% on this as some can cover for self employment if you are working 16 hours and also paying NI contributions.

If you then decide to make a complaint for misselling then there is a guide here

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/ppi-loan-insurance

Good luck

stuart-193

Thanks Marshallka - I'll take a look at that

di3004

stuart-193 wrote: »

Thanks Marshallka - I'll take a look at that

Hi there glad Marshallka came along.
Good luck with this.;)