Served a section 21 and left - now complaints I did not give notice!!

ShopNspend

Hi all,

I hope you can shedsome light on my situation, I had a fixed term tenancy for 12 months which came to an end on 5ht September. During this time the letting agent served me with a section 21.

At the end of the tenancy I have moved out and cleaned the property and then rang the landlord to ask where they wanted me to drop the key - they sounded suprised and said I had not given notice!

I asked if they could contact me to arrange a checkout and I received no contact until I have now contacted them 20 dayslater to ask where my deposit is.

I have now received an email from the landlord saying that my failure to provide notice that I was leaving has caused delays in arranging a checkout, and is saying the property was not in the condition they left it.

The landlords agent has now contacted me (the same day) giving me a list of things that were not correct and are asking me to agree to it to receive the rest of my deposit.

The landlords agent is asking me for almost £300 just to cover cleaning, replacing two lightbulbs and some batteries for the doorbell (which was actually working when I left!)- I forgot to replace the outside lightbulb and one of the bulbs in the hall! They are even having the cheek to try and charge me to clean the curtains which I took down as soon as I started the tenancy and hung back up the day I left!

The landlord has given me the impression that everything has now been rectified - but the agent is asking me to agree to these charges - which obviously I don't.
I have written and explained that I am still waiting for a checkout appointment, could anybody give me any further advise of how to proceed?

I am quite putout that the landlord is blaming me for the delays as I did not give notice, but did I need to? I would like to know whether I should have as I like to live by morals rather than just the law.

Thanks,

K.:mad:

p00hsticks

It's my understanding that if you left on the day the 12 month AST tenancy expired then you are correct in saying that legally you don't have to give any notice (although personally I think I always would let the landlord know I was intending to leave - it's only polite to do so).

Zelie

You could point out to the landlord that the agents served notice on you with the S21 and you complied with that.

It seems that there is a bit of a difference in what the agency are saying and what the landlord is saying. I'd guess that the agents dropped one by not realising that you'd move out at the appointed time and didn't bother to arrange viewings or a new tenant to replace you. Hence they are trying to claw back money. If I were you (and if it's possible) I'd start dealing exclusively with the landlord who seems much more reasonable.

ShopNspend

I generally got the impression from the agent that it was a 12month agreement and 'that was that....' When arranging the tenancy I asked for some flexibility in it - such a me giving two months notice should I wish to quit early but was given no leeway .

Thankyou for your answers - they are confirming what I thought- that legally I left when asked - does anyone have anyideas over how to proceed now?

I have today asked again for a checkout appointment, despite one email giving the impression that the agents had arranged for 'everything' to be done already. I guess I am best to just bide my time and wait for the agents to show me what requires to be done?

Where do I stand if the landlord has moved new tenants in?

franklee

Did the S21 notice request possession matching the end of the tenancy, that is the date you moved out? If so then of course you don't have to give notice as you were acting on the notice the agent gave you.

However given they didn't expect you to leave perhaps this agent operates the (nicknamed) "Sword of Damocles". This ruse involves serving a S21 early on in the tenancy that requests possession at the end of the fixed term. It is served to all tenants as routine - even if they do not really want to tenant to act on it. They usually soft soap the tenant with some vague promise the tenant can stay if all goes well or something similar. If you wish to search this forum for Damocles you will see how this is used. It's done so that if they want the tenant out later on (say if the tenant misbehaves or the landlord wants to sell or for any reason) the notice period is already ticking away or possibly even expired. In short it's an attempt to con the tenant out of getting proper notice to leave to save the landlord time in future. By acting on the notice you have caught them on the hop.

The upshot is the landlord may not know the agent served you with a S21, so I suggest you write and let the landlord know that it was his agent who served notice on you. Therefore any delays in arranging a checkout are wholly the fault of the agent. The landlord can then take this up with the agent if he wants to.

Is your deposit protected in a scheme? If so you can follow the scheme's advice on how to contest the deposit deductions. Don't wait for the agent, get on to the scheme and find out what you have to do from them. You should have been given the prescribed information that tells you all about this within 14 days of them receiving your deposit. All assuming you are in E&W. Hopefully you can show you left the property as clean as it says on the inventory as that is all you are required to do - the inventory does say how clean everything was doesn't it, if not the landlord is on shaky ground.

PS: Even without the S21 you can leave at the end of the fixed term, in theory without notice but in practice you really do need to give enough information to make clear to everyone you left and handed the key back on time. However as you were served the S21 there is no need to argue that point in your case.

theartfullodger

You had every right to leave on the last day (or before) of the tenancy without giving notice.

It probably would have saved agro to have told Landlord/agent but you are still in the right.

That the agent claims not to know this or he says that you can't surrender the tenancy like this doesn't surprise me. Agents don't have to be registered, have any qualifications, nor be criminal records checked or even have decent personal hygiene..

However, did you surrender the keys as well as the property?? (ie give back the key before the end of the tenancy??)) - Read this ....
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=21872

See also this good advice (under "Notice")
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/private_tenancies/assured_shorthold_tenancies

It is possible to leave on the day your tenancy ends without giving any notice, but this is not usually advisable. It is best to give your landlord notice if you can, especially if you have paid a deposit and need it back.

Shelter as always the source of excellent, informed and level-headed advice: Good people, good charity.


If you need help try Shelter (0808 800 444) but you may have a long wait: Particularly in these troubled times they have a high demand for their help & they are a charity.

Maybe refer the agent/LL to the shelter page??

Stick to your guns sir!

Cheers!

Lodger (Landlord since 2000)

clutton_2

the LA is wrong, you did not need to give notice because a) it was the end of the fixed term agreement and b) the SEction 21 had been issued.


However, now you have left, you cannot now demand a checkout. The time to have done that was before the end of the fixed term. It would have been sensible to have called the LA AND put it in writing a little while before you left to a) say you were leaving and b) arrange a checkout.

Did you sign a check in inventory when you moved in ?

tek-monkey

Was your deposit protected? Say you complied with the section 21 as required and therefore the LL/LA will have to try to reclaim any money through the deposit scheme. Tell them you're not interested in debate, you'll let them decide.

If its not protected.....

silvercar

Interesting.

If the deposit was protected then you received a section 21 and acted on it. That combined with it being the end of the fixed term means you had no need to give any notice.

If the deposit wasn't protected then the S21 is not valid. Still, you left at the end of the fixed term, so you had no need to give notice.

In both cases it would have been polite to inform the letting agent of when you would be handing the keys back and you should have made contact (the LA having not done so) to arrange a check out. I'm talking about a week or so before the end date, not a months formal notice BTW.

PayDay

silvercar wrote: »

Interesting.
If the deposit wasn't protected then the S21 is not valid. Still, you left at the end of the fixed term, so you had no need to give notice.

In both cases it would have been polite to inform the letting agent of when you would be handing the keys back and you should have made contact (the LA having not done so) to arrange a check out.

If the S21 wasn't valid, the tenant had no way of knowing that and acted in good faith by doing what the landlord required on the S21. They vacated the property by that date.

It's not a case of tenant being polite, the LA and LL told the tenant to leave on that day, when they issued a S21. The tenant complied. The LA should have expected the keys back on the final day of the S21 and be grateful that the tenant complied with their S21 request to vacate the property.

silvercar

PayDay wrote: »

If the S21 wasn't valid, the tenant had no way of knowing that and acted in good faith by doing what the landlord required on the S21. They vacated the property by that date.

It's not a case of tenant being polite, the LA and LL told the tenant to leave on that day, when they issued a S21. The tenant complied. The LA should have expected the keys back on the final day of the S21 and be grateful that the tenant complied with their S21 request to vacate the property.

Agreed, but I would have made contact and asked where to deposit the keys, through the letter box or to the LA. I would also have asked when the checkout would take place so that I could be there.