Is EMA Fair???

rev_henry

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

As I said before, the intention was both to enable and encourage young people who wouldn't normally stay on in education to do so. If giving them extra spending money enables them to stay on then the aim will have been achieved.

You don't encourage underachieving kids by telling them that the money has to be spent on books and things - for many of them that will be no encouragement whatsoever!

How about you just give them the money, and not tell them it has to be spent on anything in particular. If they've no other income they'll have to use some of it on books/transport; the rest will be for fun or whatever. If they don't have to buy books and walk to school then I guess its all for whatever. That's how it is basically now. You can't tell us what to spend it on as its just given to us as cash, not stationery/transport vouchers etc.

bumpoowee

Maybe it would be a good idea for EMA to work the same way as a student loan.. ie repayable once you get a job as an additional tax. Can't see why college 'funding' should be treated any differently to University funding.

LemonGrove

percymoneysaver wrote: »

I'm sorry to have offended you, LemonGrove, but I really don't think that EMA was intended for you to go buy a pair of shoes or have a night out.

But I agree, no-one can control what you do with your money. It's entirely up to you. All I'm saying is that I'm sure that the intention when EMA was set up was to help you go to college, and buy the things you need to stay there and achieve the results you are after. I'm sure the original idea was not "let's give students chill out money as that will help them stay in school". That's what part-time jobs are for.
(And yes, before you say it, I know there's a recession. I have 2 teenagers myself and they are both unsuccessfully looking for part time jobs at the moment, so that they can have extra spending money.)

I do think some of it should be used for travel expenses or similar, but I still think that a share of it - however big depending on circumstance - should be for personal use.

percymoneysaver wrote: »

In 10-20 years time, when you're older, and you're the taxpayer supporting other people's children who think they have the right to use your money to buy shoes because that "helps them stay at school", then maybe we should have this conversation again.

Maybe so, but I'm guessing at the time I would be more annoyed by those on the dole that spend all day drinking (by no means at all am I saying that's all of them) and doing nothing. At least those getting EMA are being educated as well as blowing their money on booze or whatever.

(BTW, Recession is a word I don't think I've ever said before)

bumpoowee wrote: »

Maybe it would be a good idea for EMA to work the same way as a student loan.. ie repayable once you get a job as an additional tax. Can't see why college 'funding' should be treated any differently to University funding.

I find that a terrible idea. Whether you want to face it or not, the fact is lots of students are primarily going to college for the EMA money and to socialise, with the education and qualification being secondary. If you had to pay to go to college the numbers going would decrease hugely.

bumpoowee

LemonGrove wrote: »

I find that a terrible idea. Whether you want to face it or not, the fact is lots of students are primarily going to college for the EMA money and to socialise, with the education and qualification being secondary. If you had to pay to go to college the numbers going would decrease hugely.

Well they aren't having to pay are they? It would just be a loan, which they could easily put in a savings account and pay back later if they choose, or not borrow it at all.

People are now paying more than ever to go to university but numbers seem to go up ever year.

Also if people are just going to college for EMA money, then they shouldn't be going to college at all. If they need more money to socialise they are free to get part time jobs (yes I appreciate there is a recession but supermarkets etc. are always recruiting - if you look hard enough there is always NMW work).

looby75

bumpoowee wrote: »

If they need more money to socialise they are free to get part time jobs (yes I appreciate there is a recession but supermarkets etc. are always recruiting - if you look hard enough there is always NMW work).

My daughter has been REALLY trying since she turned 16 in March and there is very little opportunity for inexperienced school leavers right now. DD even went to the charity shops to try and volunteer to gain experience but they either didn't need anyone or wouldn't take her as she was under 18 (something to do with insurance) She's a polite, well dressed, intelligent young woman (from her last school report so not just my bias ) but that doesn't help when there aren't very many pt jobs out there.

bumpoowee

looby75 wrote: »

My daughter has been REALLY trying since she turned 16 in March and there is very little opportunity for inexperienced school leavers right now. DD even went to the charity shops to try and volunteer to gain experience but they either didn't need anyone or wouldn't take her as she was under 18 (something to do with insurance) She's a polite, well dressed, intelligent young woman (from her last school report so not just my bias ) but that doesn't help when there aren't very many pt jobs out there.

Sorry to hear that - I appreciate it is certainly harder to find work than it used to be, and it may take longer to find a job, but I stand by what I said.. if somebody really does want a job they will find one eventually. I walked down the main road handing my CV in to all the shops when I was at college and ended up being offered 2 jobs at the same time as a result. I have a number of relatives with teenage children who say they can't find a job - fact is they are just lazy and can't be bothered to work, particularly when EMA is free money. This doesn't apply to everyone but the recession card is brought out far too often.

But coming back to the point I made, EMA shouldn't be the state providing 'pocket money' for young adults to socialise with, part of going to college is growing up and starting to pay for things yourself should be part of that.

percymoneysaver

Bumpoowee, while I agree with what you're saying about EMA, I don't think you can still use the "supermarkets are always hiring so anyone without a job is lazy" card.

After 2 years of working in a supermarket during A levels, one of my children found it impossible to find another job whilst at university, and I know for a fact that's not through laziness. You can't hand in CVs, you have to check their websites and see what's available. Having checked myself nearly every day, there are no part time jobs in any of our local supermarkets, and we have many within commuting distance. A story in the news today said that there were 5 applicants for every job going at a Tesco about to open.

Just like it's not only chavs on EMA, all teens without jobs are not necessarily too lazy to walk down their high streets. Maybe this is the case in some cities/towns, but not everywhere.

Sorry to have gone slightly off topic.

looby75

percymoneysaver wrote: »

Bumpoowee, while I agree with what you're saying about EMA, I don't think you can still use the "supermarkets are always hiring so anyone without a job is lazy" card.

After 2 years of working in a supermarket during A levels, one of my children found it impossible to find another job whilst at university, and I know for a fact that's not through laziness. You can't hand in CVs, you have to check their websites and see what's available. Having checked myself nearly every day, there are no part time jobs in any of our local supermarkets, and we have many within commuting distance. A story in the news today said that there were 5 applicants for every job going at a Tesco about to open.

Just like it's not only chavs on EMA, all teens without jobs are not necessarily too lazy to walk down their high streets. Maybe this is the case in some cities/towns, but not everywhere.

Sorry to have gone slightly off topic.

TBH I don't think it is that off topic, the general assumption often is that kids who receive EMA are lazy chavs who refuse to work both academically and in the job market. This thread has pretty much proved that

As for your point about not being able to just hand a CV in to stores, well my daughter found that out today too. She went into town with a stack of cv's as it's christmas temp season and only managed to find 4 shops that would accept it (all independent stores that aren't hiring right now but took them for the future) ALL the chains told her that she needed to apply via their website. How the hell does a 16 yr old who has just started sixth form and has no experience get that chance to impress a potential employer via a website?

It's the same problem she's been facing for the last 6 months

bumpoowee

looby75 wrote: »

TBH I don't think it is that off topic, the general assumption often is that kids who receive EMA are lazy chavs who refuse to work both academically and in the job market. This thread has pretty much proved that

As for your point about not being able to just hand a CV in to stores, well my daughter found that out today too. She went into town with a stack of cv's as it's christmas temp season and only managed to find 4 shops that would accept it (all independent stores that aren't hiring right now but took them for the future) ALL the chains told her that she needed to apply via their website. How the hell does a 16 yr old who has just started sixth form and has no experience get that chance to impress a potential employer via a website?

It's the same problem she's been facing for the last 6 months

Just to clarify as a few people have accused me of this - my interpretation isn't that anyone who receives EMA is a lazy chav. As I understand it, a lot of people who receive EMA are decent kids but just don't need the money. My point in this regard is that EMA has been used as a bribe for a subsection (probably much less than 50%, but still a significant number) of those to receive it to go to college to keep off the unemployment figures, who would have few prospects whether they went to college or not.

Didn't realise that about the CVs, must have changed a lot as I was only at college 8 years ago when I went around handing mine out no problem.

Forgetful

bumpoowee wrote: »

Exactly. Its a complete waste of taxpayer's money used purely to keep unemployment figures down as braindead chavs are paid to 'attend' college rather than go on the dole. Hopefully part of the upcoming government cutbacks will be to scrap this waste of millions of pounds.

in this light i would like to point out my child tax credit has been reduced by about £40 a week now my sons at 6th form....and he gets the £30 a week ema...so we still have less money each week!!

plus his bus ticket has now trebled each week cos hes over 16....
and my son is wanting to go to uni...ema or no ema... i would have done my best to finance him!!!