How to find a good IFA ?

whiteflag_3

jem16 wrote: »

She knows that Sam. Her response was made tongue-in-cheek to Whiteflag's comments that some financial planners who are tied do well because they "supposedly" focus on advice and not the product.

IMHO anyone who is tied has an agenda and it's not their clients.

Jem

Believe it or not there are St James Place "partners" who have realised that the world is changing and going to change even more over the next few years and therefore have re-engineered their businesses.

They charge fees for financial planning and providing an ongoing defined quality service and therefore there is no agenda. An IFA who just sells products has just as big an agenda as a "traditional" tied rep.

If I was looking for an adviser now, I would be asking what they are doing to prepare for 2013, because if the answer is nothing they wont be around in 3 years time.

btw a tad disappointed that you think I would post about "client focused" advisers without me being serious. The "supposedly" was a bit below the belt

EdInvestor

Looks like I was right then :idea:

Now there's a turn-up for the books.:rotfl::rotfl:

jem16

whiteflag wrote: »

Jem

Believe it or not there are St James Place "partners" who have realised that the world is changing and going to change even more over the next few years and therefore have re-engineered their businesses.

So answer the question that Ed asked directly whiteflag. Are you a St James' Place "partner"?

Personally I'd be disappointed if the answer was yes.

btw a tad disappointed that you think I would post about "client focused" advisers without me being serious. The "supposedly" was a bit below the belt

OK let's say the advice is focused on the client. What happens if a product is required and the adviser is tied to a limited choice?

whiteflag_3

jem16 wrote: »

So answer the question that Ed asked directly whiteflag?

Who?:rolleyes:

Personally I'd be disappointed if the answer was yes.

So would I !!!!! (but Id recommend a forward thinking ST james place rep in front of a traditional IFA any day)

OK let's say the advice is focused on the client. What happens if a product is required and the adviser is tied to a limited choice?

whats limited ? Most IFAs have their favourites anyway. Also theres little to choose between most products and most providers these days. Why are you going to need a "traditional" IFA post 2012 when all products are factory gate priced.

If IFAs are masters at calling the markets and picking all the best funds how come they havent retired and are sitting on a beach somewhere?

(FYi St James Place have access to Invesco High Income Fund so they can recommend what most IFAs recomend anyway )

jem16

whiteflag wrote: »

So would I !!!!!

Thank goodness for that!

(but Id recommend a forward thinking ST james place rep in front of a traditional IFA any day)

The traditional St James' Place rep pretends to be an IFA - what's changed?

whats limited ? Most IFAs have their favourites anyway. Also theres little to choose between most products and most providers these days.

I hope you don't mean that.

Why are you going to need a "traditional" IFA post 2012 when all products are factory gate priced.

There are many different kinds of IFAs.

If IFAs are masters at calling the markets and picking all the best funds how come they havent retired and are sitting on a beach somewhere?

Presumably because they don't have crystal balls?

(FYi St James Place have access to Invesco High Income Fund so they can recommend what most IFAs recomend anyway )

I think I might want more than one fund though.

Aegis

whiteflag wrote: »

So would I !!!!! (but Id recommend a forward thinking ST james place rep in front of a traditional IFA any day)

Depends what type of traditional IFA you mean. However, most of the St James Place reps deal with products that take a large amount of commission and only offer a multi-tied service. My branch-based IFA at HSBC was able to provide better products for cheaper when I worked there, at least for the protection side of things.

I didn't encounter any clients with SJP investments, so I didn't see how they compared directly on that side of the business, but if they lose out to a bank salesman on one side of the business there are problems...

Now this may not have been a forward thinking rep doing the business for them, but how exactly should someone identify the forward thinking ones from the normal ones?

whats limited ? Most IFAs have their favourites anyway. Also theres little to choose between most products and most providers these days. Why are you going to need a "traditional" IFA post 2012 when all products are factory gate priced.

An IFA can currently source the right products on a fee basis or a commission basis, or a hybrid of the two. They can rebate some or all of the commission to offset fees or to eliminate up-front costs altogether.

In reality the IFA role is going to adapt to the new system and most of them are likely to be fine moving forward as long as they work out their new terms of business before the reforms come into force.

If IFAs are masters at calling the markets and picking all the best funds how come they havent retired and are sitting on a beach somewhere?

I don't think anyone claimed they are masters of calling the markets or picking all the best funds. The idea is that they do a better job than most people at picking funds, and they fit the funds to the asset allocation that best matches the investment objectives and the risk profile. If it's agreed, they then contact periodically for a review of those investments to ensure that the portfolio is still matched to the client and their objectives.

As to why they don't retire and sit on a beach... Same as anyone else really, the best ones in the field almost certainly enjoy doing what they do. On top of that the likelihood is that they are like others with a decent salary: they spend a lot of it and save some of the leftover. Unless they're earning an absolute fortune, they probably need to work to retirement like everyone else to ensure that they have as much as possible once they finally decide to retire.

Realistically if you called share prices right every time you could probably make a fortune very quickly with just a little starting pot, but an expert at asset allocation and long-term fund management isn't likely to achieve even close to those returns. You might get very good long-term growth and might retire very well off, but I'd be surprised if it was enough to retire within a few years, especially if a family is involved.

whiteflag_3

I hope you don't mean that.

very much so

There are many different kinds of IFAs.

yes, same as there are many different types of tied reps.

Presumably because they don't have crystal balls?

So what other tools do they use to do their job?

I think I might want more than one fund though

so would I.

Guess Im lucky though in that I do my own planning.

whiteflag_3

Now this may not have been a forward thinking rep doing the business for them, but how exactly should someone identify the forward thinking ones from the normal ones?

They will talk about planning not products and WILL have a client service proposition. They will also use cashflow modelling tools.

In reality the IFA role is going to adapt to the new system and most of them are likely to be fine moving forward as long as they work out their new terms of business before the reforms come into force.

Im sorry I dont share your optimism. For example a broker consultant told me he was at a meeting recently and 13 of the 15 IFAs there said they had no intention doing the further qualifications required for 2013 and that they will make hay while the sunshines for the next 3 years. Thats one of the reasons I made the point earlier re selecting an IFA.

I don't think anyone claimed they are masters of calling the markets or picking all the best funds. The idea is that they do a better job than most people at picking funds,

The problem is there is no way of knowing whether they are actually doing a better job is there. Where can I get performance figures for JOe Bloggs IFA ltd's Balanced managed fund. In fact does JOe BLoggs have the performance figures himself?

As to why they don't retire and sit on a beach... Same as anyone else really, the best ones in the field almost certainly enjoy doing what they do.

Again in my experience most IFAs I meet cant wait to get out . They cant get out because they failed to plan themselves, which is ironic to say the least.

You might get very good long-term growth and might retire very well off, but I'd be surprised if it was enough to retire within a few years, especially if a family is involved

Thats why our business ( and many other planners who use cashflow modelling tools with their clients) is doing so well because for the first time in their lives clients can find out if what theyve got is enough or going to be enough.

jem16

whiteflag wrote: »

yes, same as there are many different types of tied reps.

The chances of finding a good IFA are better than the chances of finding a good tied rep.

So what other tools do they use to do their job?

Software and experience I would imagine.

whiteflag wrote: »

Thats why our business ( and many other planners who use cashflow modelling tools with their clients) is doing so well because for the first time in their lives clients can find out if what theyve got is enough or going to be enough.

How does anyone know what the future holds to know if you have enough or will have enough? Your whole life can change in a matter of minutes (as mine unfortunately did). I don't know what I want so how is a piece of software going to tell me?

Yes it all sounds great - you have a £1m and if you do this/do that you will have nothing left by the time you die!

whiteflag_3

I don't know what I want so how is a piece of software going to tell me?

The software wont, but an IFA asking you your attitude to risk and then putting together a portfolio wont either. The skill of the financial planner is to help you find want you want, and then plan accordingly. The cashflow software is not the holy grail, it is merely a tool to help in the planning process.

Yes it all sounds great - you have a £1m and if you do this/do that you will have nothing left by the time you die

Not really! Jem i'm surprised that someone like you would dismiss the whole thing without having any knowledge or experience of the process.

Its quite bizarre that if a business didnt do cashflow forecasts they would be regarded as reckless to say the least, however the mere suggestion that individuals should do the same is met with cynicism.